Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Global high speed internet was the nail in the coffin to IT work.
That and software that allows one person to manage hundreds of servers and workstations from a cave in India. The need for onsite support vanished.
But you could still bring that one job back to the US.
The current deficit absolutely improved due in part to unemployment. The demand for foreign products fell as a result of US consumers not having the money to buy them.
Ugh. The deficit is a ratio of two things imports and exports. Although, increased unemployment will reduce imports reduced demand from other countries will reduce exports. In a global recession such things do not significantly change the running deficits.
The change in the deficit is the result of a massive decline in borrowing by US consumers, not unemployment which is a problem across the global.
Furthermore, the non-oil deficit started to improve before unemployment became a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC
Outsourcing did begin for certain jobs before the 90's, but during the late 90's after NAFTA was signed the flood gates began to open and when Bush came in they were wide open. Are you saying that isn't true?
Most of the products made in countries like China were being out-sourced years before China started to make them. China took this work from countries like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc not the USA.
Mentioning NAFTA makes little sense as our trade deficit is now entirely due to China and Oil both of which have nothing to do with NAFTA.
"Out-sourcing" is not what is causing the deficit, its currency manipulation by China and oil producing nations. Both China and many oil producing nations peg their currencies to the dollar. But when trade is not balanced this requires them fund US consumption of their product. All the complaining about "out-sourcing" is short sighted an inaccurate. If every country freely floated their currency then no country would be able to consistently run a deficit and/or surplus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC
McCaine was repeating what had been said many, many times by the GOP especially on Fox News.
McCain and Fox News have nothing to do with the government organizations that collect and report economic data.
When everything is outsourced and all we produce are the commodities then what ?
Low paying service jobs that can't be outsourced will not bring this nation back.
This concern does not make much sense. How will Americans pay for services and products from other countries if nobody wants their currency? The only way someone in India is going to take US dollars is if someone else in India wants US dollars to purchase goods in US dollars (Of course, a chain of such among many countries will do as well).
The only problem in this nation is that it has a rent-seeking labor force that refuses to adapt to a changing market place. It has a population that seems to fail to realize that despite all of their complaining and whining their standard of living is better than the fast majority of the world in addition to previous generations.
The only problem in this nation is that it has a rent-seeking labor force that refuses to adapt to a changing market place. It has a population that seems to fail to realize that despite all of their complaining and whining their standard of living is better than the fast majority of the world in addition to previous generations.
Oh but I am adapting and many of my peers are adapting too.
I'm a software programmer and have been going to school to learn a new skill, one that hopefully won't be offshored because it requires physical presence.
I've paid off my debts; not taking on any new debts; downgraded my lifestyle and stuffing the bank while I still have my job. The new career that I'm aiming for is about 40-50% of what I'm making now so I am preparing for "this changing marketplace". Many of my peers are working on their plan B's as well which all of us agree will involve a major cut in salary.
O Many of my peers are working on their plan B's as well which all of us agree will involve a major cut in salary.
A change of career does not require a reduction in salary.
Also, focusing on jobs that "can't be out-sourced" is odd.
Software jobs by the way are still growing in the US and there are numerous jobs available. But software is a rather large field and there is a rather large supply of some workers and a small supply of others. Jobs for example Java enterprise developers are plentiful.
My student loans have ruined my life. I will never be able to pay them off.
I have been a fool. But i can sleep at night, because i know i am not the only one..
I owe $12,000 in loans and $34,000 in late fees and all the rest of the stuff they add on..
I never even recieved my diploma...
America is the best country in the world , but treats it's students like scum,, unless they are from India..
Ugh. The deficit is a ratio of two things imports and exports. Although, increased unemployment will reduce imports reduced demand from other countries will reduce exports. In a global recession such things do not significantly change the running deficits.
The change in the deficit is the result of a massive decline in borrowing by US consumers, not unemployment which is a problem across the global.
Furthermore, the non-oil deficit started to improve before unemployment became a problem.
Most of the products made in countries like China were being out-sourced years before China started to make them. China took this work from countries like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc not the USA.
Mentioning NAFTA makes little sense as our trade deficit is now entirely due to China and Oil both of which have nothing to do with NAFTA.
"Out-sourcing" is not what is causing the deficit, its currency manipulation by China and oil producing nations. Both China and many oil producing nations peg their currencies to the dollar. But when trade is not balanced this requires them fund US consumption of their product. All the complaining about "out-sourcing" is short sighted an inaccurate. If every country freely floated their currency then no country would be able to consistently run a deficit and/or surplus.
McCain and Fox News have nothing to do with the government organizations that collect and report economic data.
the massive decline in united states borrowing that you suggest is not because americans actually want to spend less, it is because other countries will not fund our trade imbalance anymore. we actually are buying our own treasury bonds now. how insane is that and how long do you think that can last?
NAFTA is representative of all the bad trade deals that have been made on our behalf by our government leaders in the last generation, to the point where we are losing our world power status and most definitely witnessing the end of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. all of these incredibly poor decisions to degrade our currency are coming home to roost now. china has now embarked on a plan which freezes the dollar out in trade with parts of asia and most recently brazil. i am sure that economists will keep advising us to hang onto debt and increase debt as we are driven into the ground. we are now going down the path of "if bad decisions got us into this mess, then they can get us out".
Our financiers have given away the store, the stock and mortgaged the land. That does not leave us much to work with. We need to put an end to outsourcing now by instituting countervailing tariffs that negate any wage, benefit or environmental advantage for the importing country. Then they can compete on the basis of lower manufacturing costs attributable to new factory technology and better products and service.
Then we will begin to invest our money in factories in our country paying good wages for good work. Some of the money we make will be reinvested in this country and not in East Buggistan. We will stop being the banker to the world and return to being the high quality supplier to the world of both food and manufactured goods.
We need to supply ourselves and not buy cheap junk we do not need from the rest of the world.
Yeah, outsourcing is not really that bad. It is far worse.
Ugh. The deficit is a ratio of two things imports and exports. Although, increased unemployment will reduce imports reduced demand from other countries will reduce exports. In a global recession such things do not significantly change the running deficits.
The change in the deficit is the result of a massive decline in borrowing by US consumers, not unemployment which is a problem across the global.
Furthermore, the non-oil deficit started to improve before unemployment became a problem.
Most of the products made in countries like China were being out-sourced years before China started to make them. China took this work from countries like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc not the USA.
Mentioning NAFTA makes little sense as our trade deficit is now entirely due to China and Oil both of which have nothing to do with NAFTA.
"Out-sourcing" is not what is causing the deficit, its currency manipulation by China and oil producing nations. Both China and many oil producing nations peg their currencies to the dollar. But when trade is not balanced this requires them fund US consumption of their product. All the complaining about "out-sourcing" is short sighted an inaccurate. If every country freely floated their currency then no country would be able to consistently run a deficit and/or surplus.
McCain and Fox News have nothing to do with the government organizations that collect and report economic data.
You seem to fixated on China. I lost two great paying to Ireland not China. Still the job went "offshore".
Ignoring NAFTA is what makes little since. NAFTA killed the farming industry in Mexico and they flooded into the US like ants on a birthday cake. The end result was American workers were given a choice accept a 2/3rds cut in pay or find another way to make a living. This is another form of outsourcing jobs.
Other American companies established their companies in Mexico to take advantage of the lower wage and non existent environmental standards. Some how those pollutants are going to stop at the border.
You want to focus "outsourcing" as a China only problem when it is much more than that.
Why would the alternative close shop if it was still getting business? Again, you seem to fail to realize that many businesses require equipment that may or may not be available in the US.
1. It wouldnt be getting business for long. Someone in the US would set up a shop, and produce the goods for a lower price, and push them out of business.
2. Since the US produces much of the equipment used in third world factories, Id imagine they could obtain most of it. What they couldnt obtain here, they could ship from their old factory, or rebuy. Significant tax breaks could be given to help factories rebuild over here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
All the matters is balanced trade. Trying to bring back a bunch of crappy manufacturing jobs will not work. The processes will just be automated and little new jobs will be created here, where as many jobs will be lost due to reduced exports.
Crappy manufacturing jobs? First thing, those jobs didnt become "crappy" until they went to sweat shop mode. When they were in the US, they provided thousands of middle class lifestyles, over 3 or 4 generations. Second thing, a factory doesnt just create jobs producing things, it creates dozens of jobs supporting it. Maintenance, lunch trucks, plant accounting, janitorial, parts suppliers, machiners, the list goes on. When an auto plant closes up, and goes to Mexico, it creates a chain reaction domino effect of 100's or even 1000's of other people getting laid off, outside of those on the assembly line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Not really. The factories are mostly simply structures, they are just importing materials for them. Most of what China buys from us is not for their export sector.
If you cant provide proof, this fact is going to have to remain a difference of opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
This is not "my theory". I have never suggested that reducing the trade deficit will "create jobs".
Really...you didnt say this on page 20
"For every job you create by forcing back production for something will import you'll lose jobs for something we export."
This is simply false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
You can have balanced trade, yet a globally depressed economy running 20% unemployment. My point is that as far as out-sourcing goes the primary issue is the trade deficit. If trade is balanced, then any reduction in imports will have to be met with a similar reduction in exports.
The problem is, trade cannot possibly be balanced to some countries, and never will. Until the US can produce all of its required resources in its borders, it will be FORCED to get them somewhere else. That other country is not FORCED to buy equivalent American junk. That is exactly why the imbalances with those countries dont matter on any level.
Concentration should be applied only to items which CAN be produced by Americans, and therefore directly cost American jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
How to "create jobs" and improve your domestic economy is an entirely different issue.
"Creating jobs" is a different matter, but moving them is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
In terms of alternative energies, any lost in oil related jobs and exports to oil producing nations would be gained by a new energy sector in this country.
Not entirely neccessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Their records would tell you nothing, they would not hire someone without docs. But fake docs are a dime a dozen.
So who are you to pick and choose who is fake?
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
I do not believe the majority are Spanish as a first-language. The ability to speak Spanish usually deminishes after the 3rd generation, so the majority can speak decent Spanish.
The Hispanic population of Los Angeles started to explode in 1980. Try again. Additionally, in 2000, 13.8% of the legal Los Angeles population was born in a foreign country, and a full 36.5% were born in a foreign country (this number is rising every year, so is likely much higher right now). Who wants to bet most of them were from a Spanish speaking country, and either speak Spanish only, or Spanish as a first language? I will bet every future penny I make, well over 50% of hispanics in LA are fluent Spanish speakers, and at least 30% speak little to no English.
(All of this is from the LaAlmanac, and is quoting Census Bureau stats).
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
But what is your point? You think I cannot tell the difference between someone foreign born and someone born here?
I dont care if you think you can tell or not. Just because they werent born here doesnt make them illegal, and just because they will do jobs for a legal wage others wont doesnt make it wrong in a capitalism sense of the word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
I grew up in Los Angeles, why you think you're going to tell me something new about the area is beyond me.
Not telling you anything new, just things you cant, or refuse to realize.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
