Is outsourcing really that bad? (corporation, currencies, corporations, dollar)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by RedNC

You seem to fixated on China. I lost two great paying to Ireland not China. Still the job went "offshore".

I stated exactly why I was mentioning China. Are trade deficit is now due to two things 1.) China, 2.) Oil.

If trade is balanced then "out-sourcing" is not a problem. Jobs are going to move around global, that is how the global economy works.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by user_id

If trade is balanced then "out-sourcing" is not a problem.

Thats actually not true. The trade balance is not based on anything other then value of the goods shipped. Any combination of production can equivalate to that total. So, a country could literally keep an even trade balance, and STILL export many of its jobs. They would just have to produce bigger ticket items with less people.

That doesnt help anyone but the capitalist. I dont see how thats "not a problem".

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

2. Since the US produces much of the equipment used in third world factories, Id imagine they could obtain most of it.

No, not really. I know many machines that you can't easily obtain. Nobody makes them anymore. Why would a foreign factory sell them to the US? Also, Germany makes a lot of industrial machinery.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Crappy manufacturing jobs? First thing, those jobs didnt become "crappy" until they went to sweat shop mode. When they were in the US, they provided thousands of middle class lifestyles, over 3 or 4 generations.

This is just romanticizing the past. Manufacturing jobs never paid particularly well and in the past the work was extremely brutish.

Only more high skilled manufacturing paid decently, but it still does today. If everyone can do a job, the job is not going to provide good wages.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

When an auto plant closes up, and goes to Mexico, it creates a chain reaction domino effect of 100's or even 1000's of other people getting laid off, outside of those on the assembly line.

Yes and? If other jobs in the economy are being created then this is not an issue. And if trade is balance this is exactly what happens. How is the auto company going to pay its Mexican workers? It needs pesos, how does it get pesos? Someone in Mexico needs to buy something in US dollars.


The problem is that the auto workers are rent-seekers and they don't want to retrain for another job. They want to make a good salary making cars for the rest of their life. The auto industry has even resisted automation because it would put people out of work! Ford had to build their automated plant in Brazil!

Originally Posted by Randomdude

"For every job you create by forcing back production for something will import you'll lose jobs for something we export."

This is simply false.

Are you going to now try to take my sentences out of context? In general it is false, it is not false in the given context, which was:

"If trade is balanced there are no "jobs to force back". For every job you create by forcing back production for something will import you'll lose jobs for something we export. You see, that is what it means to have balanced trade."

If trade is balanced, then any reduction in imports has to be meant by an equal reduction in exports. Why? Because you can only export to countries that have US dollars to pay for the product, but how do they get US dollars? By importing products into the US.

The only way to avoid this is if the US provided loans to the other country so they could purchase US products.

Please explain to me how a country using a different currency can buy products in US dollars without having you know....US dollars.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

The problem is, trade cannot possibly be balanced to some countries, and never will. Until the US can produce all of its required resources in its borders, it will be FORCED to get them somewhere else. That other country is not FORCED to buy equivalent American junk.

You're right the other country is not "forced" buy American products. It could simply put the US dollars in a hole and burn them. But then we are getting products in exchange for green paper. Not a bad deal. Two things can occur:

1.) Either the other country will not use the US dollars, in which case the US gets free products.

2.) The other country will use the US dollars in which case the trade will be balanced.

Either way, its not a problem.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

....I will bet every future penny I make, well over 50% of hispanics in LA are fluent Spanish speakers, and at least 30% speak little to no English.

Again, why you think you're going to tell me something new about a city I grew up in is beyond me... I stated that the majority of LA Hispanics speak "decent Spanish". I don't think the majority are Spanish as a first language though.

There is a big difference in the way foreign born folks speak Spanish and the people born in this country though. The Spanish starts to get more and more watered down, they will use more and more English words in their Spanish. Both because there is not necessarily a Spanish equivalent and because they forget the Spanish word. Anyhow, its rather obvious who is American and who is Mexican.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Just because they werent born here doesnt make them illegal, and just because they will do jobs for a legal wage others wont doesnt make it wrong in a capitalism sense of the word.

Never said they were illegal if they were not born here. But, becoming a legal resident is not that easy. I've known a number of people that were not able to get legal residency, despite doing everything right (Both Hispanic and others). Those people that can hardly speak English regardless of race are usually illegal.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Not telling you anything new, just things you cant, or refuse to realize.

You don't know about Los Angeles, why even bother talking about it? You are just saying obvious things like "Just because they weren't born here doesn't make them illegal". Oh gee, really? You seem to think I'm some anti-Hispanic redneck. But I'm just stating the facts of the situation.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Thats actually not true. The trade balance is not based on anything other then value of the goods shipped. Any combination of production can equivalate to that total. So, a country could literally keep an even trade balance, and STILL export many of its jobs. They would just have to produce bigger ticket items with less people.

And you think this is a problem? This will result in a better standard of living and less work hours. That is exactly what has happened over the years too.

The US has one of the best standards of living, I would say its working out pretty well.

Needless to say, if the masses were not working then they would not be purchasing imported products.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by user_id

And you think this is a problem? This will result in a better standard of living and less work hours. That is exactly what has happened over the years too.

The US has one of the best standards of living, I would say its working out pretty well.

It is a problem because fewer people are needed to actually do anything of value. How exactly is one man getting richer because he was able to reduce his labor costs by cutting two employees, or cutting all employees, a positive thing? What are those cut employees going to do when there is absolutely no demand for any human labor any where outside of face to face sales?

Wall-E is an eventual reality. The problem is, we arent going to be in some utopia with robots doing everything. There will be a few people who control everything, and everyone else will be killing each other for the scraps.

[HappyTexan]

user_id - you post over and over about retraining and how new jobs are created.

What job would you retrain for ? What new type jobs are being created ?

I don't see what an Engineer with a 4 year degree or Masters would retrain for that is better than what he had that got offshored.

[RedNC]

Originally Posted by user_id

If trade is balanced then "out-sourcing" is not a problem.

Do you think trade is balanced now?
If it is how is it balanced?
If not what would it take to put it in balance?

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by user_id

And you think this is a problem? This will result in a better standard of living and less work hours. That is exactly what has happened over the years too.

The US has one of the best standards of living, I would say its working out pretty well.

Needless to say, if the masses were not working then they would not be purchasing imported products.

What are you talking about? People have been living on credit because salaries have not kept up with the rate of inflation. The more we outsource jobs; the great the demand there are for the jobs which are let. Thus employers can pay what ever they want to a possible employee. I don't think any one believes in your lop sided idea of globalization. How can any one feel positive about it when they are loosing their jobs? You just don't know and care what it is like to be in some one else shoes. I so wish you could.

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

user_id - you post over and over about retraining and how new jobs are created.

What job would you retrain for ? What new type jobs are being created ?

I don't see what an Engineer with a 4 year degree or Masters would retrain for that is better than what he had that got offshored.

Before I went back to college to become a teacher, the government was forecasting that education and healthcare jobs were going to be the future. It’s just another piece of nonsense from the federal government. Those job sectors are cutting jobs because of state budget cuts and corporate layoffs. Soon sweeping the streets will be on the top of the governments list of future employment jobs.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

user_id - you post over and over about retraining and how new jobs are created.

What job would you retrain for ? What new type jobs are being created ?

I don't see what an Engineer with a 4 year degree or Masters would retrain for that is better than what he had that got offshored.

I agree. I have read some of User_ID's post's and just can't understand his rational.

I am a laid off designer engineer that was in the automotive industry. A combination of the whole auto crisis and offshoreing put me on the street. I've been in it 17 years, when I started you did not need a degree. It was more like an apprenticeship thing. I worked my way up and had several years well over 100k, not bad for someone without a degree. Well now I'm faced with a career change and I have know idea what to go into. I see people with degree's making 25k a year and they are lucky to even get a job in the field their degree's are in. I did something I loved and got payed great, how am I going to do better than that ? I do not see many high paying jobs being created, hell I don't see many lower paying jobs being created.