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Old 06-22-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,857,088 times
Reputation: 1298

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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
Want to throw around credentials, use some better ones then taking 2 econ classes. By that logic you must bow before my Ungrad in Econ, MBA, and doing corporate financial work for nearly 10 years. The thing is your professor said his answer (hopefully he at least explained to you why he thought so) and you did not predict it...even then, I haven't heard "My teacher said X" as a reasoning since I was in middle school.

What the majority think is pretty much immaterial, they just jump from fad to fad regurgitating what the pundits throw out there without any understanding of the why. The majority of the same people who are diving into simple living now were buying houses using complex ARM products in 2005, buying tech shares in 1999...those who understand what's going on moved outside of fads.

I like Robert Kiyosaki, who kind of ignited the housing fad origonally then was ignored when he started pointing and saying it was overvalued and get out. Largely because his first mantra is educate yourself and your family, you are your best investment...plus that, and I quote “Most people are poor because when it comes to investing, the world is filled with Chicken Littles running around yelling, ‘The sky is falling. The sky is falling.’”. I don't always agree with his investment logic, he has little technical background, but I give a fair shake on the idea of social engineering...people move in droves like a wave, you get in early you can ride it.
Just remember the majority whose opinion means little to you, well they are the ones who make the difference in this economy. They can make and brake companies, like the one you work for in a wink of an eye. They are not as stupid as your ignorant opinion of them makes them out to be.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,857,088 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
I disagree.

Our economy was driven by real estate/housing/development due to a cocktail of low interest rates, implicit gov't backing of mortgages by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, financial deregulation, pro-housing tax policy, and American financial illiteracy.

It was not the only option for investment, it was simply the investment that our politicians tried to funnel money into, causing a bubble.
What we should be asking ourselves is why did financial deregulation begin in the 90's and continue to a point that it helped wreak the banking and financial institutions? Or are we just too stupid to ask suck highly intelligent questions and allow the EXPERTS like subsound make all our decisions for us?
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,055,553 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
What do you make of all that?
How do you know I didn't predict it? Come to think of it, I did and shifted my investments to compensate (and didn't purchase a house, like many people I knew did) starting in 2005. Which is why none of my investments are really suffering, some went down due to general market fears but came back to nearly the same levels recently. Not that anyone listened to me, or even asked for help in financial education, so I pretty much stopped advising those around me because many just listen to those telling them what they wanted to hear...the greedy only listen to the greed mongers because people want to feel good about buying more. It's not like no one was telling people there was a bubble in housing, there were a number. No one wanted to hear about it till people started defaulting, or the bubble in tech stocks previously...then people scream why the people feeding them what they wanted to hear didn't tell them, after dismissing and ignoring the people who were telling them otherwise.

I know what I make of the current climate, not that anyone around cares...many just want to run around screaming the sky is falling. I can keep my own financial house in order, and have with much success over the years. What I'd rather see is people educate themselves and provide good foundations for decisions then just listen to news stories, pundits and advisers.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:43 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
You sound like a broken record. I put a monies bet if you create a poll by asking what needs to be done to get this economy turned around, bring back jobs to the U.S. would be the most popular choice. My friend you opinion is in the minority. You spend most of your time defending your position by more than a few people.
You're probably right.

The same irrational majority mentality that drove the housing and tech bubbles will be the same irrational majority mentality that pushes for protectionism, taxes and restrictions on outsoucing, plunging the planet into a severe depression as international trade and the global economy grinds to a halt.

Last edited by le roi; 06-22-2009 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,857,088 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
You're probably right.

The same irrational majority mentality that drove the housing and tech bubbles will be the same irrational majority mentality that pushes for protectionism, taxes and restrictions on outsoucing, plunging the planet into a severe depression as international trade and the global economy grinds to a halt.
I worked for a number of banks that saw larger mortgages as the key to more profit. I think people are now waking up after years of being lead by the nose by economic elitists. If there is failure going around it began at the top. After all a good number of people got wealth deceiving the middle class. Where would these masters of the universe be with out them? By the way I don't think it was the middle class that brought about job outsourcing. It was the greedy few at the top.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:34 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
I worked for a number of banks that saw larger mortgages as the key to more profit. I think people are now waking up after years of being lead by the nose by economic elitists. If there is failure going around it began at the top. After all a good number of people got wealth deceiving the middle class. Where would these masters of the universe be with out them?
People are greedy and stupid at all levels of the economic spectrum. Some just wield more influence than others.

Quote:
By the way I don't think it was the middle class that brought about job outsourcing. It was the greedy few at the top.
Outsourcing is when work is contracted to another firm. There is nothing new or special about outsourcing. You sound like you're referring to offshoring, which is outsourcing to workers in foreign countries.

In my view, there are two basic policies that we could pursue:

a) Strong dollar, weak labor market
b) Weak dollar, strong labor market

A worker with limited marketable skills will probably want (B). A worker with marketable skills will probably want (A).
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,857,088 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
People are greedy and stupid at all levels of the economic spectrum. Some just wield more influence than others.



Outsourcing is when work is contracted to another firm. There is nothing new or special about outsourcing. You sound like you're referring to offshoring, which is outsourcing to workers in foreign countries.

In my view, there are two basic policies that we could pursue:

a) Strong dollar, weak labor market
b) Weak dollar, strong labor market

A worker with limited marketable skills will probably want (B). A worker with marketable skills will probably want (A).
Tell that to the U.S. software engineers who lost their jobs to Indian workers. What do you think they would choose? Please don't play words. You know what outsourcing means. If McDonalds could produce pre-made hamburgers in China they would. The problem here in the U.S. is that individual companies don’t see the larger picture involving job outsourcing. They act independently and often take up the same business practices as their competitors. They are only worried about making bigger profits. Now when you multiply that mentality many times over you get a country which is devoid of needed jobs.

Last edited by Stac2007; 06-22-2009 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:39 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
Tell that to the U.S. software enginers who lost their jbos to Indian workers. What do you think they would choose?
If they lost their jobs to indian workers, then they probably have limited marketable skills and would probably benefit from protectionism, a.k.a. weak dollar/strong labor market.

My point of view is based upon what I think is good for the country's economy as a whole, not necessarily what is good for some sub-set of workers with a useless skill set. I sympathize with them up until the point that they try to screw me by advocating harmful economic policies for their benefit.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,857,088 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
If they lost their jobs to indian workers, then they probably have limited marketable skills and would probably benefit from protectionism, a.k.a. weak dollar/strong labor market.

My point of view is based upon what I think is good for the country's economy as a whole, not necessarily what is good for some sub-set of workers with a useless skill set. I sympathize with them up until the point that they try to screw me by advocating harmful economic policies for their benefit.
Have you ever written a software program? I thought not! They truly have a skill which is remarkable. It takes years of experience to become a great software engineer. I would not tell them their skills are not important to the economy as a whole.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 26,749,371 times
Reputation: 5038
The weak dollar scenario ultimately hurts labor. Sure, more people have jobs but their pay is lost to rampant inflation in necessities. The solution would be a stable dollar with deflationary consumer prices. The trick would be to invest the capital created in tools to make the average worker more productive. Yes many jobs will be lost. However, one wage earner could easily support a family instead of all having to work. In reality a prosperous economy would be one where less jobs are needed yet all can have the necessities of life without much effort. If my job was farming in 1900 and I saved money to buy a tractor, then I could reduce my work hours and still produce more! If I replaced every job on the farm with robotics I would have to do no physical labor except to maintain the equipment. As humans we need food, shelter and clothing. Energy harvested from the ground, the sun or other sources can do it all for us. However, we currently have to rent our homes from the Government, and send part of our productivity to support them so our standards of living continue to decline. They continue to rob us and lie about the state of the economy, yet we continue to support them. Energy and raw materials are the engine of technology, and only technology can improve our lives.
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