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England is also like this if I understand correctly. If that is not considered free, then what is? Explain it to me please.
No out of pocket payment is still not free, you get higher taxes as a result. No where is health care truly free, nor should they be. How many people do you know would work for no pay? Seriously, doctors rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt alone to practice medicine...plus the cost of state of the art equipment. This would have to happen if there was free health care, doctors, nurses, drugs, buildings, and equipment would not be paid for if health care was truly free. Asking some one to be hundreds of grand, millions if you include equipment for the facility, in debt so you don't have to pay for your demands in medicine is about the most disrespectful thing I have ever read.
I think the US health care fails the working poor and lower middle class, but I think the tax funded health care fails more people. I think there needs to be a good blend to take care of people in that gap. Chronic health problems are much different then drinking yourself stupid and nearly dying from a bad decision, then getting forced to take responsibility for your poor decision.
I am very sorry that people tried to save a persons life who didn't want to pay the bill for it...but at some point you can't push the responsibility for bad decisions onto other people, and I know my life is worth more then that. The OP made a bad decision and guess what, if you acquire the bill you must pay for it. It would be the same if they were in an accident, made a bad investment, or anything else. Take the experience and move on with you life, you can either blame other people or accept responsibility and the learning experience. I know I have for my stupid mistakes, I am the last thing from perfect, I think accepting has been a great motivator and help to my life to make me the success that I am today.
Hmm. Now, in theory, if you are opposed to the current healthcare system, you could make a case that your refusal to pay the bill is a moral stand; your way of helping push the ailing system closer to collapse rather than helping to prop it up.
You are absolutely incorrect. Getting smashed does not absolve oneself from responsibilities. Were this the case, people wouldn't be locked up for DUIs. Oops, I was drunk and didn't mean to get this DUI! Honest, I didn't mean to hit that telephone pole head on which resulted in my not being able to sign on the dotted line. Sheesh. P.S. Stop banging your head against the wall as it's limiting your ability to think!
Getting smashed does not absolve oneself from damages but it does absolve oneself from their ability to enter into a contract. Concenting to be treated by a hospital, doctor etc, and concenting to pay is a contract.
The law states in just about every state, something similar to
Capacity of the Parties In order to be bound to a contract, the parties must be competent to enter into the legal arrangement. Underage persons, persons who are mentally ill, and intoxicated persons usually are not bound by the contracts they enter. However, a minor may have the option of enforcing a contract under some circumstances.
DUI is not a violation of a contract, its a criminal action and has nothing at all to do with the topic. We're talking civil actions, not criminal
Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on
Noooooooooooo, again I will correct you. Insurance companies negotiate contracted rates with providers and providers are paid based on these contracted rates. UCR (usual and customary rates) are based on rates charged within a locale - not a federal locale. The reason a person with no insurance pays more for the same services rendered than a person with insurance is simply because the insured person is protected by the contracted rates as set forth between insurance company and provider. Youza!! I've read your posts throughout this thread and you are really off base. The only person more off base is Las Vegas guy who seems to think his fellow Nevadans should pay for his drinking/hospital bills.
UCR rates are dictated on a federal level and then adjusted by a percentile based upon local cost of living. Its R&C rates are created locally.
In addition, its VERY common for insurance companies to ONLY pay a percentile of a UCR rate to a hospital, doctor etc even if they do not have a contract. I've worked for a company that had a contract with a state to provide insurance, I know exactly how the "insurance" gimick works and how those without insurance (i.e. people like myself) are left to pickup the tab..
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
We are talking about a person who is unconscious in a potential emergency situation. No different than an unconscious hit and run victim.
The OP did not state they were unconscious, they stated they were forced to go to a hospital for treatement. Unconscious individuals can not make that determination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
You really dont see the difference between that and someone who is signing a car lease after one too many martinis? I'm quite sure the court would see the difference.
It depends if the individual was conscious or not and every state law that I know of has an out for contracted obligations based upon the individual being sober or not.
The police CAN force you into an ambulance and the hospital CAN force you to stay there if you are inebriated by some means. In my case, I was drunk. That is what this whole situation is over! I was drunk! Its so stupid! Okay, not that I'm a drama queen, but I will tell the story just so you guys realize i'm not a bad person, I just got caught in a bad situation.
It was my boyfriends birthday. We went out and partied with our friends. We went a bit overboard. Indeed, I should have been more careful with my drinks, but I wasn't. At the end of the night, my boyfriend got us a cab and we got back to our house!!! Only problem....That last shot of patron hit me as we were stumbling to our door. I collapsed and fell asleep on our walkway going up to our house and a cop saw.
(as the story was told to me) my boyfriend tried to tell the cop that we live here, but the cop took out his club and stuck it in my bfs chest telling him to back off. I didn't wake up because that is just how I am when I'm drunk. When im out, im out till the next morning. The cop called an ambulance. When they arrived, I mumbled that I didn't have health insurance and can't go, but they took me anyway, then I vomited I think!
I wake up the next morning with tubes coming out of my body all over the place! I'm scared to death of course. I thought I had gotten beat up.
If that cop wanted to help me, I don't weight much and he could have helped my bf get me to our couch which was 10 feet away, literally! I didn't need blood tests done, or urine tests done, or IVs in me! (I counted 7 puncture wounds in my arm from needles).
I asked to be let go immediately when I woke up at 7:30. They said my release time was 9, so I didn't get out until 9. Btw, it was really awesome walking home from the hospital because my bf had my phone and my wallet.
I wasn't drugged, I didn't even have alcohol poisening! I had too much to drink and needed a bed, which was 10 feet away!
I know i'm ranting. I'm sorry. . I hope you all can understand how stressful this situation is, and how it didn't have to be stressful at all. And the worst of it hasn't even shown up in the mail yet.......
Since she doesn't remember anything between the time the ambulance picked her up and the time she woke up in the morning it would be hard to make a case that she was conscious during that time.
Since she doesn't remember anything between the time the ambulance picked her up and the time she woke up in the morning it would be hard to make a case that she was conscious during that time.
She vomited, she muttered that she didnt have insurance, she was conscious, she wasnt coherant, and unable to consent to pay the bill, but she was conscious.
You can force treatment on her, you cant obligate her to pay the bill. Sure you can try to bill her, but any signature from her to consent to pay would be deemed null if it ever got to the point of suing for payment.
She can fight it all she wants. The police put her in the hospital because they felt she was a danger to herself. Who wouldn't think that, passed out on the sidewalk, couldn't even make it into her home. Drunks do choke on their own vomit and die.
The charge of public intoxication requires that the person be intoxicated to the degree that he/she is a danger to him/herself or another person. Being publicly intoxicated makes a person vulnerable to robbery, assault, and a number of other difficulties. The offense is usually a misdemeanor for which a person may be jailed for a short period of time or issued a citation and fine. A person arrested for public intoxication may need to post bail, given as security for their later court appearance,before being released from jail.
Laws on public intoxication vary by jurisdiction. Some laws provide for the offender to be taken to an alcohol treatment center, medical facilty, or their home, rather than jail. If the person is jailed, it is usually for a period after which they are no longer considered to be a harm to themselves and others (the time necessary for them to "sober up"). This period will vary by jurisdiction, degree of intoxication, and other factors.
Public intoxication is generally not defined by a blood alcohol content level, but rather by the harmful or disruptive behavior of a person who is intoxicated.
Yes but the OP never claimed (not that I recall reading) that they were in public. They could have been in a private home and thereby not breaking the law, just a consern for their safety at that point would arrise..
pghquest and AnesthesiaMD - you guys are probably both right in a sense. The hospital, like any creditor, is probably going to bill the OP for the full amount of the cost of the services. They'll try their hardest to get that amount, although if it becomes obvious that the OP won't pay, they might agree to a settlement of some kind. In the event of total refusal to pay, a certain amount probably will go to collections, which will affect the OP's credit record...
Now, as to the law. There's no law stopping the hospital from billing whatever it wants. It could bill the OP a billion dollars if it felt like it. pghquest is probably right on the point of capacity to enter into a contract. But the key is that it's going to have to go to court for that to work, which either means quality legal representation or the OP being able to make a sophisticated enough argument on her own to convince a judge that she did not have the capacity to enter into a contract.
There's the law, and there's reality. The two don't always coincide.
renovating - if no citations were issued and there is no police report (not clear from OP's statement, but I would venture to guess that there is no police record), then what the police officer in question did is of absolutely zero relevance here.
So if a cop driving by sees me on my doorstep, I'm in public?
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Explain it to me please.
P.S. Stop banging your head against the wall as it's limiting your ability to think!
