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Old 08-19-2009, 10:08 AM
 
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someone needs to explain how unemployment is a lagging indicator in a consumer driven economy. higher unemployment guarantees less consumerism.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Jim,

Everything is a conspiracy to you isn't it? LOL!

And don't delude yourself into believing your pointing anything out that isn't already well known by just about everyone. Let's face it, some people love drama and wallowing in misery so as to allow themselves to feel better and to give themselves excuses for being where they are. Doesn't change the fact that the winner's are still going to win and the loser's are still going to lose though.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:14 AM
 
975 posts, read 1,754,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
someone needs to explain how unemployment is a lagging indicator in a consumer driven economy. higher unemployment guarantees less consumerism.
Get a economics book Sandy.

I can't believe someone who posts constantly about economic issues and claims to have a window into the future and all knowingness as to whats wrong and how to fix it doesn't understand what is probably the most basic rule of economics next to supply and demand.

You have unintentionally proven what I've said about your lack of knowledge in a much more concrete way than I ever could have. Thank you for outting yourself.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,285,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I know this falls on deaf ears, but just another sign of improvement. No, everything isn't perfect, but just one more opinion and set of facts that confirms that the anticipated apocalypse will not take place as expected.

Global Economic Recovery Has Started: IMF Official - Economy * US * News * Story - CNBC.com (http://www.cnbc.com/id/32460791 - broken link)
Did you really read this article? It is hard to understand how you can say it is a sign of improvement. First of all it is using opinions of the IMF which has a vested interest in an improving economy and slants its bias accordingly, but even so let’s look at what they say.

"The global economic recovery has begun but sustaining it will require refocusing the United States toward exports and Asia toward imports, the International Monetary Fund's chief economist said."

In order for this to happen we have to be able to produce exports at lower costs that the Chinese can produce similar items domestically. Do you think that is a realistic expectation?

"U.S. consumption, which accounts for about 70 percent of the U.S. economy and a large chunk of global demand, would not quickly return to pre-crisis strength as households cope with trillions of dollars in losses from the falling housing and stock markets."

US consumption pre crises was predicated on "bubble" spending with consumers spending more than they were earning. It was a decade of spending on borrowed money based on inflated property values. We are defiantly not going to return to those levels.

"From the point of view of the United States, a decrease in China's current account surplus would help increase demand and sustain the U.S. recovery," he said. "That would result in more U.S. imports which would help sustain world recovery."
But in order for China to boost domestic demand, it will need to provide a stronger social safety net and increase household access to credit, which will encourage its consumers to save less and spend more.

What I am reading here is a whole lot of "if's". And none of those if's are in China's best interest. They have economic concerns of their own to deal with, and it is doubtful they are going to do anything to hurt their own economic growth in order to help us.

"Much of that growth is predicated on fiscal stimulus and inventory rebuilding, both of which will have to come to an end, and the stimulus comes at a cost to future growth.
"In nearly all countries, the costs of the crisis have added to the fiscal burden, and higher taxation is inevitable," Blanchard said."

I really cannot see anything positive here. Growth that has been purchased with fiscal stimulus is ending, but the huge bill for it still exists, and will result in higher taxes, which takes money out of the economy.

"All this means that we may not go back to the old growth path, that potential output may be lower than it was before the crisis," he added.
If the rebalancing toward more U.S. exports and more Asian imports fails, the future looks far more grim. In that case, a weak U.S. recovery would likely lead to intense political pressure to extend fiscal stimulus until private demand recovers.
If officials resist that pressure, the U.S. recovery would be very slow, he said. If they bow to the pressure, high fiscal deficits may persist, leading to doubts about debt sustainability, U.S. government bonds, and the dollar.
Under that darker scenario, the dollar may depreciate "in a disorderly fashion, leading to another episode of instability and high uncertainty, which could itself derail the recovery," Blanchard warned.


As I read this, it says if the Asian’s do not bail us out, we are toast.
Well that makes me feel better.
Maybe there is something to this optimism stuff.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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here is the quarterly short report from BIS for industrialized countries (that is us)


For industrial economies, a powerful interaction between the financial sector and the real economy began to take hold in the last quarter of 2008. A dramatic loss of confidence was combined with the unwinding of imbalances that had built up on household, industrial and financial system balance sheets in the industrial economies since the beginning of the decade. The outcome has been a severe downturn in both real activity and inflation. But since leverage has only begun to adjust – credit in both the financial and non-financial sectors of the economies that have had credit booms remains well above the level of only a few years ago – it is reasonable to anticipate both a protracted downturn and a slow recovery.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:45 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,908,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traderx View Post
Get a economics book Sandy.

I can't believe someone who posts constantly about economic issues and claims to have a window into the future and all knowingness as to whats wrong and how to fix it doesn't understand what is probably the most basic rule of economics next to supply and demand.

You have unintentionally proven what I've said about your lack of knowledge in a much more concrete way than I ever could have. Thank you for outting yourself.
i am still waiting for your actual response on how unemployment is a lagging indicator in our economy. where is your "knowingness" on the issue?
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:52 AM
 
975 posts, read 1,754,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
i am still waiting for your actual response on how unemployment is a lagging indicator in our economy. where is your "knowingness" on the issue?
It's simply too much fun watching you to explain it. Afterall, whats in it for me for making you smarter?
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,991,883 times
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Many of the self proclaimed realists are actually pessimists in a state of denial. A genuine realist is one who acknowledges the crap, contemplates solutions, then discusses the solutions with others. A pessimist is one who acknowledges the crap then continues to focus upon the crap ad-infinitum. By focusing on the crap, all a pessimist can see is more crap in the future. A pessimist could open a web page containing links to 99 articles having an upbeat focus and one link to an article with a gloomy tone. A pesimist wiil be attracted to the one gloomy article like a moth to a candle. If a pessimist mistakenly clicked on a link to one of the upbeat articles, it would register in thei mind as unbelievable, contrived, and pollyanna-ish. A pessimist will conclude that it was written by a false prophet because it just doesn't mesh with their gloomy viewpoint.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 08-19-2009 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:14 AM
 
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a realist would suggest that there is a problem and offer solutions, all of which our government has chosen to ignore.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,285,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Many of the self proclaimed realists are actually pessimists in a state of denial. A genuine realist is one who acknowledges the crap, contemplates solutions, then discusses the solutions with others. A pessimist is one who acknowledges the crap then continues to focus upon the crap ad-infinitum. By focusing on the crap, all a pessimist can see is more crap in the future. A pessimist could open a web page containing links to 99 articles having an upbeat focus and one link to an article with a gloomy tone. A pesimist wiil be attracted to the one gloomy article like a moth to a candle. If a pessimist mistakenly clicked on a link to one of the upbeat articles, it would register in thei mind as unbelievable, contrived, and pollyanna-ish. A pessimist will conclude that it was written by a false prophet because it just doesn't mesh with their gloomy viewpoint.
Actually a realist is someone who makes conclusions based upon a preponderance of the evidence. Evidence being that which is fact, in contrast to spin which is what "might be" or "if this happens" or "that’s a lagging indicator". There were many "optimists" in New Orleans when the Hurricane struck, who believed (despite the evidence to the contrary) that everything would be OK. You see reality does not care if you are an optimist or a pessimist.
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