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Old 08-07-2009, 08:33 AM
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 139,617 times
Reputation: 71


The BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) reported job losses of 247,000 and a unemployment rate of 9.4%. Both of these numbers were below earlier estimates of 275,000 jobs lost and a unemployment rate of 9.6%.

While it is nice that the number of losses and unemployment are beginning to decline let's not get it twisted. 1) We are still losing jobs and 2) Once a person has exhausted all unemployment benefits they are no longer counted in the unemployment survey.

The question is...will this eventual recovery be just as jobless as the previous one?

My two cents follows: In our "post-capitalist" society, the traditional path to success will be driven by entrepreneurs, thinkers, doers, independent professionals and not by the W-2 wage earners.

What is your opinion?
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:01 PM
17,898 posts, read 31,258,875 times
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Regarding "success," you are likely correct, although I don't think that's new.
The majority of earnings will still be paychecks. Most people don't have the skill or outlook of independence, "start your own business," and so on. It's a specialized bunch of inclinations and abilities. I can't see the whole country being a bunch of one- or two-person initiatives.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 139,617 times
Reputation: 71
I apologize for not adequately defining what I meant by "success". I will attempt to explain myself in a different way. In the industrial age, there was "generally" two paths for most people. If you completed college, you took a white collar job with a corporation, worked the prescribed number of years, reached the prescribed age, and simply retired with a pension until the grave, if you did not go to college, you took up a skill trade and followed the same path to retirement.

If we continue to have the same type of jobless recoveries, people will be forced to find at least some partial alternatives to full time gainful employment. Of course there will always be large corporations and a set of "core" employees to go with them. However, in the "Information Age" if you will, the masses of employees will be hired and /or fired in a cyclical fashion. Corporations will prefer to use contractors or consultants as when they are used no layoffs have to be announced. The project is finished and all move on.

I worked in Washington DC for many years under this model. I can recall being a young man in my early twenties (late 1980's to early 1990's) and getting a job with a "Major" Corporation to work at a "Major" Government agency. Being the product of a family whose parent had one job for 34 years I was naively expecting a similar life. A few years go by, the major corporation loses the contract and you lose your job on the last day. period.

Adapting to this world view requires a change in mindset. Of course many areas of the country, such as the Midwest are just being confronted with these issues in the last decade. While I agree that we will not become a country of one and two person entities, some of us will have to adapt or wind up on the losing end of the capitalist system. BTW, I am pro-Capitalism but as even Bill Gates once said, perhaps we can find a kinder and gentler form of capitalism.

Last edited by Authenticity; 08-07-2009 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:18 PM
975 posts, read 1,694,822 times
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I believe your right. I am toying with the idea of starting a new business right now. I've owned a similar business in the past and one of the things I'm trying to figure out is how to have as few salaried/hourly employees as possible and instead have the majority working on a performance based system. It' s worked extremely well for sales people so I see no reason why it can't work equally well with others. The trick is properly measuring performance which is easier to do with sales than say IT support.

The idea isn't to save on costs but rather to insure high performance. I've always felt my sales people grossly outperformed all other employees due to the fact their paycheck was solely dependant upon their level of production. But, the more they made the more I made so my goal was always to have sales reps making lots of money.
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:21 AM
5,653 posts, read 18,717,918 times
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Authenticity - you are so right. But something needs to be done about the high costs of education and continually re-educating yourself at the whims of fickle markets. And the fact that your insurance is archaically tied to where you work. If your place of employment changes every 3-4 years and cannot afford the cobra in the between times, as it is very expensive - what happens?

As you see, the way everything is done should change to dovetail with how people are now going to have to earn a living. Unless we want catastrophe.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:25 PM
Location: On the Chesapeake
41,721 posts, read 54,362,429 times
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The rate went down because 400,000 stopped looking for work so aren't counted as unemployed.


Is it really time for this ?
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:46 PM
54 posts, read 300,942 times
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I am sick of signing online everytime and seeing, "signs of recovery here" or "obama says recovery starting." BS, I am sorry....who is so naive to believe the government when they tell you this? Yes, we are still losing jobs at astronomical proportions, Yes, most of those jobs aren't coming back. Too much supply...too few jobs. Something is going to happen/change, because at this rate (w/ the outsourcing, etc...) There will be people who will never be able to be employed, simply due to the overwhelming numbers of people available for work. The system is going down the drain and the government is making it worse. This country has been digging its own grave for quite a while now (outsourcing, ARMs, etc...) Any educated person could see that something had to give.

I, for one, am self employed and still waiting to earn a living at it. Have a few large deals in the hopper, but until then, it is difficult. Sure, I could look for a job, but there are really none out there. I would rather put all of my efforts into growing my business, as it is truly what is going to save my economical life.

I remember my first job out of college (only 1 1/2 years ago) and driving around, thinking, is this what I am going to be doing for the rest of my life, and being depressed about that. Little did I realize, no, you are lucky to stay at a job even a year nowadays. It is a revolving door society, especially with sales jobs. Don't these companies at some point realize, "maybe it is not the overwhelming number of employees we keep bringing in that are not good at selling our product...but maybe, just maybe, no one is buying anything from anyone in this economy."

Needless to say, the government has not bailed out my company, or given me ANY loans or grants of that sort. My company would be doing GREAT right now, even over the past year, but guess what... NO ONE can get financed (and this is for $5,000-$7,000 mind you), yet I am paying MY tax dollars to bail out these banks that will not release MY tax dollars so that people can take out loans.

Something isn't right here...
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:17 PM
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 139,617 times
Reputation: 71
I agree 100%. in an economic system where there is no sure continuity of employment (at least with a single employer), health insurance MUST be decoupled from one's employment. Other developed nations have created a road map for us to generally follow and tweak to meet our country's specific needs.

However, overcoming the insurance and big pharma industries lobbying and rhetoric machine is a serious problem. They are attempting to use one's natural fear of the unknown to try to keep things the same. I am not a health delivery expert to say the least. However, I do know that if we can finance two wars for more than 5 years each, bail out banks and insurance companies (we are into the trillions here!!!) that really should have failed in our FREE MARKET, we can provide some sort of "GAP" or alternative coverage for Americans.

Those against this will argue about free market solutions and such. I say that we have a free market system RIGHT NOW that does not work when the insurance industry engages in price collusion and big pharma does the same (did I make that accusation out loud!).

Now I cannot prove the above but I do offer this video of a recent Bill Moyer's Journal entitled: "Profits Before Patients" with Wendell Potter, who is a former Vice President of corporate communications at CIGNA. It is about an hour long. View when you have the time to take it all in. Enjoy.

The Journal: Profits Before Patients | Bill Moyers | PBS Video
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:37 PM
609 posts, read 2,042,236 times
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Need to keep in mind that 150,000 new jobs have to be created every month and where are they going to come from? With the ONLY 247,000 looks like about a 400,000 shortfall. Nothing to get very excited about but at least not as bad as it was, of course unless you are one of the 247,000 unemployed last month.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:22 AM
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 25,807,889 times
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The economy reminds me of a loquat tree that was at my parent's home. It grew to be one of the largest in Florida and strong with many delicious fruits. Then it was infected with a fungus. At times branches would die and I cut them off, and other times "green shoots" grew out and new branches formed. A batch of fertilizer and water would get things going. All the while the fungus attacked the trunk of the tree. Eventually the leaves started falling off, more and more and then they fell less and less. In the end the tree was dead, despite the fact that a few branches tried to regrow and bear fruit. The fungus would not let that happen. Today we have a fungus called Government and Wall Street that has infected the economy, and as it dies they continue to fatten themselves up. The solution to the tree problem was not simple as planting new trees of the same variety died. I had to bulldoze the soil out and put in new soil and wait a year before I could plant a new loquat tree. Unless the current corrupt government and its supported financial criminal speculators are replaced with fresh talent and the cronies are cut off we will be looking at a dead economy like I looked at a dead tree. Any new attempts will fail as the dollar dies and we all suffer while the well-connected continue to insulate themselves from the rest of us. I do not see that happening in my lifetime unless Americans become more rebellious.
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