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Old 08-11-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,369 posts, read 3,066,901 times
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bightdoglover,

The "formative years" in ones career is generally between 25-40. Many people will switch around and be in "career limbo" the first 4-5 years but generally the years that define the success of someones career will be between 25-40. Companies decide to "fast track" certain people and most people who make it to the c-suite will be on a track for that in their 30s. I don't mean "formative years" as in human maturation.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,300,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colleeng47 View Post
. In the meantime, get the kids through college, get all our bills (including mortgage) paid off, so we don't need much to live on.
Here is what I don't understand, why do you even have a mortgage? Even if you purchased your home when you were 30, it should be paid off right now. Lately, I've been finding that many boomers in their late 50's and 60's still have a sizable mortgage. Very different from the previous generation, my grandparents had no mortgage by the time they were 40.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,522 posts, read 13,434,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc3217 View Post
The flip side is, I see a really strong sense of entitlement from boomers like her. They grew up in good times (aalthough it was also the cold war?!), and they are disappointed by the new reality.
The good times weren't all that good.

I am the quintessential boomer born just a few years after the end of the second world war.

We had Vietnam and we had a draft. In 1968 alone we suffered 16,592 killed in action for an average of 319 per week. That isn't 319 a month it's 319 a week. That's 46 per day and there were some days in 1968 it went over 100.

That's 1,381 a month or equivalent to killing off all the graduating males of one large high school every other week.

During my time there we had around 450,000 troops in county. Imagine a large senior high school class where a student was killed every single week and we had to be there for 52 weeks.

What do we have in Iraq and Afghanistan now, 50 a month?

When I was drafted at 19 not only I couldn't drink but I couldn't vote either. The voting age was 21.

Take a moment and think about about that.

In 72 and 73 we had horrible news for unemployment. The last two years of Mr Wonderfulness hemself, Jimmy Carter, were terrible and if you think things are bad now you just wait.

Then we had recessions in 1992 and again in 2002. They weren't bad but we felt them.

It was mostly good but don't look at the last 50 years through rose colored glasses either.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Part one of the ignorance is the thinking there's a finite number of jobs. There aren't, there are jobs to be created and made right now so why don't you do a little research and make one yourself? Don't tell me it can't be done either, millions and millions have gone before you to create their jobs so what makes you so special that you can't?
Perhaps instead of putting "ignorance" in bold numerous times you could think about this a bit more. Jobs are not limited in the long term, but in the short term there is certainly a good deal of rigidity in the job market. After all...why would we have an elevated unemployment rate right now if this was not true? The boomers not going in retirement can certainly effect the unemployment rate short-term (and short term could be many years), but its possible combined with other issues it may produce elevated unemployment for some time. Furthermore, there are other issues that just the raw number of jobs....there is also job equality. Boomers because of their age are usually in top positions if they refuse to retire they'll likely stay in those positions and younger workers will not be able to "move-up" as the boomers were able to.

Also, as I've said numerous times in this thread I'm self-employed. I was not going to put my future in some short-sighted boomer bosses hand.

Lastly, no more in my OP did I suggest life should be all "rosy", the thread is about how the economy going forward may be effected by the aging boomers. Given the size of the cohort...I think this is important to think about.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
We had the Vietnam war, we had the recession of the 1970s, we had the stock market crash of 1987, the recesssion at the end of the 1980s, the dot-com bust and now this crash.
The recession in the 1970's was the worse economic event, but many Boomers were not even working during that period. The boomers have lived the majority of their working lives in relatively good times, I think this has given them a sense that "oh things will always get better". Where as Gen-X is much more fatalistic. I think the different in attitude is pretty noticeably even on this forum. Its usually the Gen-X (and to some degree Y) that are worried about the long term direction of the economy, boomers usually come in with "Oh it will recover just fine, just like in the past".

In contrast most Gen-X have not worked more than a few years in a stable economy! In terms of employment the dot-com bust primarily effected gen-X, not the boomers. The huge housing bubble in numerous states prevent Gen-X from purchasing a home...or if they did it was financial suicide. All the while...boomers profited from the rapid appreciation.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
5,836 posts, read 9,512,963 times
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Smile Having a mortgage....

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Here is what I don't understand, why do you even have a mortgage? Even if you purchased your home when you were 30, it should be paid off right now. Lately, I've been finding that many boomers in their late 50's and 60's still have a sizable mortgage. Very different from the previous generation, my grandparents had no mortgage by the time they were 40.
Why not? Why do you have to keel over and die by the time you are 60? In my case, my husband and I had to support my mom and dad - yes, you got it - $1700 per month out the door each month; we did without and eventually want to enjoy life a little bit. I know most people don't have that burden. Real estate can be your primary home but it can also be an investment. If you love your home and plan to stay there, great. A lot of people I know weren't even married by 30 (they wanted to be).

And then who says you have to stay in your home 30 years anyway? What if you get transferred or want to move somewhere else?

Many boomers are not typical boomers if there is such a thing. There's still a lot of energy out there in boomerland. Oh no, we are not our parents generation either.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,300,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I This current recession is on a par with the end of the 1980s. The main difference is that we didn't have big 401ks yet which could get blown away so there was not the impact on retirement.
Under what measure? In terms of things that matter this recession is looking to be the worst since WW2, but just as the dot-bom bust this recession is hitting the younger generations more (in terms of employment etc).

EmploymentRecessionsJuly.jpg (image)

This recession is sucking away Boomer phantom wealth though, which is part of the reason why they can't retire. They were counting on phantom wealth that they never earned.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,300,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bette View Post
Why not? Why do you have to keel over and die by the time you are 60?
I find it funny that boomers always correlate retiring with things like "keeling over and dying"...that is exactly my point. For the boomers, retiring means they are "old" and they don't want to think they are old even when they are old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bette View Post
And then who says you have to stay in your home 30 years anyway? What if you get transferred or want to move somewhere else?
Nobody says you have to stay in your home for 30 years. But the majority of boomers kept resetting their 30-year mortgages every time they moved so that they can "move-up" in the housing market. For example, say they owned their house for 10 years and they moved, instead of purchasing a house in the same price range and taking out a 20-year mortgage they instead purchased a more expensive home with their equity and took out another 30-year mortgage. Now, moving up can make sense if for example you need a bigger house because the kids. But boomers kept "moving-up" every 10 years or so even as their households were not growing or were shrinking. As a result many boomers still have sizable mortgages despite being home owners for over 30 years! In contrast the previous generation had their house paid off even before they retired as 15~20/year mortgages were more common then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bette View Post
Many boomers are not typical boomers if there is such a thing.
Of course, these are just statistical generalizations there are many exceptions.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,522 posts, read 13,434,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Under what measure? In terms of things that matter this recession is looking to be the worst since WW2, but just as the dot-bom bust this recession is hitting the younger generations more (in terms of employment etc).

EmploymentRecessionsJuly.jpg (image)

This recession is sucking away Boomer phantom wealth though, which is part of the reason why they can't retire. They were counting on phantom wealth that they never earned.
No even close.

Misery Index

The misery index is what you get when you combine unemployment with inflation. That is true misery.

Right now the misery index is 8.07%. The highest ever was June, 1980 when we enjoyed a Misery Index of 21.98% under the wonderfulness of the Obama I presidency of Jimmy Carter.

We had 7.6% unemployment coupled with a 14.38% inflation rate.

Yes, there was 1.5% less unemployed then but the inflation rate was staggering. Every time you went into the store prices were going up but wages weren't.

Think about this if you don't think inflation was so bad. Imagine having a two income family taking home $5,000 per month but every month through the course of a year it reduced by $60.00. In April your take home was $5,000, in May it would be $4,940, in June it would be $4,880, in July it would be $4,820, in August it would be $4,760 and by September it would be $4,700. Robbed of $300 every month in just six months. To put it another way that's an entire new car payment.

In a year a 14.38% inflation rate would be exactly as if you lost $719 out of your take home pay. For many that is a house payment.

In three years it would be exactly like losing almost half your pay.

In 2009 people who aren't afraid of inflation are to young to have endured it.

That is misery.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
5,836 posts, read 9,512,963 times
Reputation: 7884
Smile We owe it to them....

My parents' generation (in my case) fought in WW II. My dad was only 15, lied his age (it was 1943) and joined up. My mom was in the Canadian Army. She was 7 years older than my dad.

I always look at their generation as "The Greatest Generation" but in spite of WW II, they had company loyalty and stayed with their employers and retired after 30 plus years. I know it's a generalization and I'm not trying to generalize. My uncle, for example, flew for Air Canada - from 1950 to 1985. He has a great pension, travels for free all over the place.

In my generation, we saw companies merge, get acquired, what job security?
We also saw the advent of so much - I graduated from college in 1990 but went back last year to get an accounting degree and had to take so many more courses - in just 18 years, so much had changed. Bottom line - I learned a lot and still have 5 courses to go for that 2nd degree.

My husband and I are both self employed and will need to work for at least 25more years. We have had to help parents and also have children who have college still. We will do what my parents didn't do for me - get them through college, give them a solid footing.

We wish we could have been one of those couples who lived the really good life, even just for a while. But, here we are, starting over again. I have a mom with Alzheimers, age 88 and a father in law, age 86, who needs some help. But, there are those who have it much worse.

Everyone has a story though. Most couples I know personally have it all together and have prepared well. We were not as lucky but we're still together after 25 years, 2 kids and still love each other. We are not looking for handouts; we will continue paying our bills and eventually get there.
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