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Old 08-19-2009, 08:09 AM
 
48,508 posts, read 88,898,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
The US also has the most effective and disciplined force on the globe as well. Coincidence? I think not.

If you ask most ranking military officers, they completely oppose drafting of any kind. It greatly reduces the morale, skill level, and effectiveness of the force, in order to simply achieve a greater man power.

However, then again, some would say the US military is drafting, economically, that is. The poor and underpriveleged are disproportionatley represented in the service, and it is rare to find children from the top two quintiles of family incomes enlisting, or even in the service at all. They join "voluntarily" as defined by not signing their name with a gun to their head, but in reality, they are pressured by lack of legitimate alternative options.

While I served in a draft military and can see the advantages of keep the scum out ;it puts a disproportate burden on too small a per centage of the population.I thnik that means we as a society need to make sure we reward them better when they serve and after they serve.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,436,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
While I served in a draft military and can see the advantages of keep the scum out ;it puts a disproportate burden on too small a per centage of the population.I thnik that means we as a society need to make sure we reward them better when they serve and after they serve.

I cant see how much more you can reward them. Free healthcare, highly subsidized housing, all kinds of bonus and additional pay, the GI Bill. Come on now.

An E-1 with less then 2 years of experience is making more in total compensation then I am (not including any bonuses or college tuition), and I have a 4 year degree and 5 years of work experience.

2009 Annual Salary Chart for U.S. Military Enlisted Members

An o-1 fresh out of college, makes about 53k in total compensation. I will probably not see that until Im 35.

2009 Annual Salary Chart for U.S. Military Officers

I would highly consider joining the service if I wasnt medically disqualified on two counts.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,260,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
About 75% of the stuff I listen to was made between 1960 and 1975. I am 27. I share the notion that most music made after 1980 (primarily gen x and y), and especially after 1990, is completely forgettable.
You can prefer any sort of music you want, but I know of no sense in which the music is actually "better" in any objective sense (e.g., musical sense).

Also, the music from the 70's that people still listen to is by definition the stuff that was not forgettable. Nobody remembers the forgettable stuff from the 60's and 70's because it was ahem....forgettable. You'll need to let the same amount of time to pass before you can make any real claim about whether 90's music is more forgettable or not.

Regardless, people tend to know and listen to the music of their generation and that music will be used in ads, etc targeting that group.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,415,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
This would not surprise me, Gen-X saw an increase in counter-cultures and more than any other generation divided itself up. You had "the punks", "the metal heads", "the jocks", etc. All of this is primarily from Gen-X, where as the Boomers were much more homogeneous.
Good point about X'ers splitting themselves up.

Splintered in several ways....there were the punks, metal heads, jocks.

But you've also had more diversity in the country since the 80's, so you've also had rap, r&p, etc. Which differs from previous black artists like James Brown or the Supremes. Its more commercialized now and mainstream.

Then splintered further into gangster rap and all these genres. There's no common unity among X or y'ers. Come voting time, it may mean they dont see eye to eye on things the way boomers have?
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,890,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
I cant see how much more you can reward them. Free healthcare, highly subsidized housing, all kinds of bonus and additional pay, the GI Bill. Come on now.

An E-1 with less then 2 years of experience is making more in total compensation then I am (not including any bonuses or college tuition), and I have a 4 year degree and 5 years of work experience.

2009 Annual Salary Chart for U.S. Military Enlisted Members

An o-1 fresh out of college, makes about 53k in total compensation. I will probably not see that until Im 35.

2009 Annual Salary Chart for U.S. Military Officers

I would highly consider joining the service if I wasnt medically disqualified on two counts.
I have a son in the military, and he pointed out that those numbers in the links above are overstated.

An E-1 with less than 2 years of service makes $1400/mo in base pay, and if he's single he probably is forced to live in a dorm room and eat at the chow hall and therefore gets no further allowances, for a total of $16,800/yr. If he's married, he gets another $324 for meals and $604 in non-taxable housing allowance (if he lives off the base). That's $27,936 a year, not $35,105 in the link.

Likewise, an unmarried O-1 (2LT) makes $2655 in base pay, plus $223 for meals and $615 in untaxable housing allowance if he lives off base, for a total of $41,916/yr. If he's married he gets an additional $205/mo for housing, for a total of $44,376, not $53K as posted in the link.

In some high cost areas like Washington DC and San Francisco, they bump up the housing allowance to make up for the high cost of housing there. And they get overtime for everything they work over 24 hours in a day...

Source: DFAS Military Pay Tables (http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2009MilitaryPayTables.doc - broken link)

Given the risk they're strapping on and the irrevocable nature of their commitment to go where/when the government sends them, I don't think they're overpaid.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,436,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I have a son in the military, and he pointed out that those numbers in the links above are overstated.

An E-1 with less than 2 years of service makes $1400/mo in base pay, and if he's single he probably is forced to live in a dorm room and eat at the chow hall and therefore gets no further allowances, for a total of $16,800/yr. If he's married, he gets another $324 for meals and $604 in non-taxable housing allowance (if he lives off the base). That's $27,936 a year, not $35,105 in the link.

Likewise, an unmarried O-1 (2LT) makes $2655 in base pay, plus $223 for meals and $615 in untaxable housing allowance if he lives off base, for a total of $41,916/yr. If he's married he gets an additional $205/mo for housing, for a total of $44,376, not $53K as posted in the link.
The base housing allowance you quote is for the lowest cost locales in the country. Maybe Kansas or Texas. However, the link I provided accounted for the AVERAGE housing allowance.

According to this site

Basic Allowance for Housing: Query Results

An E-1 in the Norfolk/Porstmouth area of Virgina (the biggest Navy base in the USA) gets $1016 a month without dependents, while an o-1 gets $1,222

Thats $418 more a month then you figured. Additionally you did not figure in uniform allowances, free medical, and all other non bonus additions to salary, such as sea pay or combat pay.

In San Diego, another well known naval installation, its $1,472 a month. This is $17,664 a year of untaxable income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
In some high cost areas like Washington DC and San Francisco, they bump up the housing allowance to make up for the high cost of housing there. And they get overtime for everything they work over 24 hours in a day...

Source: DFAS Military Pay Tables (http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2009MilitaryPayTables.doc - broken link)
In very few locales they are making the minimum housing allowance


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Given the risk they're strapping on and the irrevocable nature of their commitment to go where/when the government sends them, I don't think they're overpaid.
The government is insuring almost every risk a soldier assumes, outside of physically replacing life and sometimes limb. That aside, the majority of service members face little to no risk doing their job (including almost all of the Navy and Air Force), and the largest downside of their job is the inconvenience of being on long missions from home (which they are also compensated for).

I have to say, I would gladly sign my name on the "irrevocable" line (which also works both ways, since they wont be laid off either) in exchange for having my housing covered, my medical covered for me and my family, discounts at practically every other establishment within 5 miles of a military base, base amenities, and a decent paycheck after that for whatever extra I needed.

As I mentioned before, if I was medically able, I would have joined the Navy or Air Force directly out of college. It beats the complete hell out of the few civilian jobs Ive held alternatively.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,513 posts, read 13,394,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I think the issue is that the younger simply do not know how much it sucks to have a big piece of debt over their shoulder and their parents really never taught them to take on debt cautiously. Once they experience it, I think will start to avoid it. Of course I still know Gen-Xers are that are building a nice mountain of debt for themselves.
Everyone makes their fair share of mistakes and to take the burdeon off the baby boomers a bit it should be remembered their parents and grandparents were shaped by the great depression.

While some boomers got stupid with debt gen y (or whoever born after 1970) got even more stupid and to a large extent are the ones paying the price today.

True baby boomers should be doing pretty well right now, your house should be, or nearly be, paid for and with the kids all gone you should be working the last 5 to 10 years saving a solid 30% of your take home income.

It is all about saving today for tomorrow. 10 years ago it was all about granite countertops and and two new SUV's in the driveway but today it is all about savings.

I wonder if this recession is having an impact on gen x and y? I think this experience is going to turn us from a nation of spenders to savings nuts.

Five years ago I had nothing saved. I had money in IRA's and retirement accounts I thought were savings but we really didn't have savings.

A while ago I changed two strategies that help us save.

First thing I did was stop the automatic payroll deposit. I want my check so when we take it to the bank for deposit we get a nice crisp $100 bill that gets tucked away at home in a special hiding spot. When you first start it seems hardly worth it, that poor $100 bill sitting there with just a couple friends looks hardly the effort to save it.

But save for a while and it isn't long the stack of $100 bills starts to look serious and in two to three years you start thinking about "what would happen if we had a fire?"

This isn't retirement or savings... it is emergency money.

It was all my fault but a few years ago I made a mistake but it will be paid for May, 2009 and then we will increase our emergency put aside from $100 to $300 per week.

What strikes me most are the families most being hurt now could have done much to avoid the hurt by being more prudent when times were good. Lots of the destitute families we hear about today could have saved $100 a week for 10 years but instead indulged themselves by spending every dime they earn or borrow.

If the mom and dad with a family of four with an income of $60,000 had started doing the $100 bill a week savings for the last ten years they'd have $52,000 in emergency cash set aside. The prospect of losing your job because the business folded wouldn't be so psychologically damaging with $52,000 cash hidden away.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,805 posts, read 17,612,755 times
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My aunt must have been a practitioner of the hide away strategy for many years, but I think her weekly contribution was a smaller denomination than than a $100 bill. When she died in her mid 80s a few years back....$38,000 in a shoe box was found in one of her closets.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
5,826 posts, read 9,478,113 times
Reputation: 7846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Generalizing what "boomers" are doing is as ludicrous as the label "baby boomers."

There seems to be an over-abundance of illegal and legal immigrants in this country taking jobs from qualified Americans. This is certainly a problem and contributes mightily to the unemployment rate. Absolutely ridiculous. Let's start with the idea that maximizing profits at the expense of employee loyalty has been the focal point certainly during the last 8 years. "Boomers" are not the problem. The mentality that American workers are expendable and cheap foreign labor preferred, is.
AMEN - and might I add, a lot of our policing, medical costs are incurred by those not really legal to be here. We saw the crime really increase in one of our cities due to the illegals. Sad, just sad.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: In America's Heartland
929 posts, read 1,955,077 times
Reputation: 1190
Deciding when to retire is personal decision. Sometimes it is based on financial concerns, but sometimes people are just not ready to retire. There is no doubt that many boomers are getting squeezed with the need to take care of aging parents on one hand, while watching their grown children coming back home without a job on the other.
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