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Old 08-24-2009, 07:18 AM
 
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Randomdude, if you are making only $10/hr. after graduating from college, you should have chosen a more lucrative line a study.

Furthermore, I suspect you vastly underestimate what kind of savings it takes to prepare adequately for retirement, especially given an employment environment that no longer provides pensions and 401ks that fail to perform.

Look, I sympathize with you about the burden of student loans, and I agree with you that parents can really help get their kids off to a good start if they are able to pay for even a part of college. But, you are young and a bit self-absorbed, which is clouding your perceptions of a typical middle-class family's finances.
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,807 posts, read 17,642,056 times
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Randomdude wrote:
This is 100% true. It is well known that the best and highest paying jobs go to kids with high GPAs and lots of contacts and internships. Its many times more difficult achieving those things when you are spending most of your non-class/non sleep time at a job.
I know for a fact that it is at least slightly less than 100% true! My daughter had a part time job thru HS, worked summers during her undergrad studies, and worked as a teaching assistant during her pursuit of a masters degree in Hydrology. She managed a 3.9+ GPA and received numerous job offers. After 6 years of college, she walked away with less than $10K of student loan debt. We provided some financial assistance, but not the whole ball of wax.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
5,836 posts, read 9,509,482 times
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Smile I totally agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
I grew up lower middle class, with 2 siblings, and I got little of what I wanted. However, the one thing that I received was a college education. I will do my best to offer any of my future children the same.

I think its incredibly selfish for parents with the means to assist, or completely pay for their childrens education, to instead, spend it on themselves and toss their kids to the wolves. Its amazing to wonder why so many of them end up coming home to live with mommy and daddy when their $500-$1000 a month student loan payments are sinking them in their $10 an hour job. It doesnt make them stronger at all, it just retards their transition in to self sufficient adulthood by 5-10 years.

A college education these days is almost standard these days to make any sort of living, why exactly, shouldnt parents try to provide their children with that?
I agree and you said it very well. My belief entirely.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,456,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Randomdude, if you are making only $10/hr. after graduating from college, you should have chosen a more lucrative line a study.
Oh, you mean like Finance? Randomdude- Class of 2004, BSBA- Finance, starting wage, $10.15 an hour.

You are heavily overestimating what almost all college degrees are worth in the real world. Unless you go to a top school/have an insane GPA, you are likely getting a job that you are heavily overqualified for, and could be taught to any high school kid with half a brain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Furthermore, I suspect you vastly underestimate what kind of savings it takes to prepare adequately for retirement, especially given an employment environment that no longer provides pensions and 401ks that fail to perform.
My parents never made more then 60k in a year, and they averaged about 40k a year. They now own two houses, and paid cash for two 100k+ 18 wheeler rigs. They dont have a whole lot of savings, but they have two houses, my dads Navy retirement and theyll have social security, which will likely provide a decent standard of living altogether. They managed to put 3 kids through 4 years of college. I guess they are just freaks of nature huh?

My parents didnt do anything more then almost anyone born in their generation could have easily done. They didnt require any special degrees, they didnt own a restaurant, they didnt get any inheritance, they werent athletes. Just good ol' fashioned elbow grease and penny pinching.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
But, you are young and a bit self-absorbed, which is clouding your perceptions of a typical middle-class family's finances.
If only I didnt grow up lower middle class, and WATCH my parents do EXACTLY what I suggest that a good number of boomer parents should be able to do.

Instead, they are too busy buying a new car every 3 years, and decorating every room of the house with a plasma screen TV.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,369 posts, read 3,066,294 times
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Randomdude,

You are the perfect candidate for an MBA or some kind of graduate level business education. Your salary would at least double if you got into any somewhat decent program (doesn't even have to be top 20). Yes, it would require debt, but the payoff would be worthwhile. The people who benefit the most from that type of program are those who are working "high end" jobs that are "dead ends" and carry low salaries.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,456,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drshang View Post
Randomdude,

You are the perfect candidate for an MBA or some kind of graduate level business education. Your salary would at least double if you got into any somewhat decent program (doesn't even have to be top 20). Yes, it would require debt, but the payoff would be worthwhile. The people who benefit the most from that type of program are those who are working "high end" jobs that are "dead ends" and carry low salaries.
Unfortunatley, Randomdude graduated with a 2.7 GPA, which wouldnt even qualify him for an MBA program in an average degree mill.

So, I would have to go back to undergrad, do what most people in grad school do, get an undergrad in History or Political Science, get a 4.0 GPA, and then get an MBA.

Thats alot of time and money I dont have.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle
1,369 posts, read 3,066,294 times
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2.7 is tough, but it's not as much of a deal breaker as you think. MBA doesn't care THAT much about GPA like a lot more more "intellectual" types of grad program. You'll need a real good GMAT score (like a 700), and it will probably keep you from getting into a real high program, but it's not as much of a deal breaker as you think.

That said, if you can get the good GMAT score there are plenty of programs ranked 30-50 that you can probably get into...those programs will get you very good jobs that would make the program worthwhile. If you have a strong application besides the GPA it's not a deal breaker. Most MBA programs only have a 3.2ish average GPA and probably 25% of people admitted have a 2.9 or lower. The ones that have a 2.9 or lower will generally have a slightly higher GMAT and slightly longer work experience to compensate. A lot of US students will have pretty poor GPAs - they will never admit international students with low GPAs so that 25% admitted with 2.9 or lower will all be domestic students (which account for 55-70% of students at schools). So do the math on the percentage of US students with lower GPAS. You graduated in 2004 so you are already on the upper end of work experience for a full time MBA program. If you can get that upper end GMAT score I think you'd actually be surprised at what level of program you can get into.
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,456,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drshang View Post
2.7 is tough, but it's not as much of a deal breaker as you think. MBA doesn't care THAT much about GPA like a lot more more "intellectual" types of grad program. You'll need a real good GMAT score (like a 700), and it will probably keep you from getting into a real high program, but it's not as much of a deal breaker as you think.

That said, if you can get the good GMAT score there are plenty of programs ranked 30-50 that you can probably get into...those programs will get you very good jobs that would make the program worthwhile. If you have a strong application besides the GPA it's not a deal breaker. Most MBA programs only have a 3.2ish average GPA and probably 25% of people admitted have a 2.9 or lower. The ones that have a 2.9 or lower will generally have a slightly higher GMAT and slightly longer work experience to compensate. A lot of US students will have pretty poor GPAs - they will never admit international students with low GPAs so that 25% admitted with 2.9 or lower will all be domestic students (which account for 55-70% of students at schools). So do the math on the percentage of US students with lower GPAS. You graduated in 2004 so you are already on the upper end of work experience for a full time MBA program. If you can get that upper end GMAT score I think you'd actually be surprised at what level of program you can get into.

Thanks for that info. Im pretty sure I can do ok on the GMAT. I looked at some of the study books for it in the book store, and it doesnt look like something Id completely flub. To be honest with you, Ive only really passively looked in to this because Ive always assumed my GPA was way too low.

Maybe Ill look in to this when I get to whatever city I end up moving to in the next year, probably Philadelphia or Indianapolis.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:20 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 11,216,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Oh, you mean like Finance? Randomdude- Class of 2004, BSBA- Finance, starting wage, $10.15 an hour.

I got a B.A. in English from a very average midwest university, and my starting salary as a copy writer for a tiny rust belt business was $32k/yr with benefits in the recession of 1991! There is something weird about your story.

My parents never made more then 60k in a year, and they averaged about 40k a year. They now own two houses, and paid cash for two 100k+ 18 wheeler rigs. They don't have a whole lot of savings, but they have two houses, my dads Navy retirement and they'll have social security, which will likely provide a decent standard of living altogether. They managed to put 3 kids through 4 years of college. I guess they are just freaks of nature huh?

My parents didn't do anything more then almost anyone born in their generation could have easily done. They didn't require any special degrees, they didn't own a restaurant, they didn't get any inheritance, they weren't athletes. Just good ol' fashioned elbow grease and penny pinching.

If only I didn't grow up lower middle class, and WATCH my parents do EXACTLY what I suggest that a good number of boomer parents should be able to do.

Instead, they are too busy buying a new car every 3 years, and decorating every room of the house with a plasma screen TV.

Oh, for goodness sake! This older Gen Xer (nearly a Boomer) isn't out buying plasmas and new cars. I'm using coupons, sharing one decade-old car with my husband, packing lunches, forgoing vacations, and saving a little less than half of our family's annual income, so we can retire before we're eighty-five.

Your parents did a great thing for you, and they sound like wonderful, responsible people. They are also very lucky to have lived in a time when pensions and social security were a given. I don't think I'll be as fortunate, and chances are, neither will you.
Quit your whining. It's getting old, especially since it appears that you have it fairly good.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,456,059 times
Reputation: 2552
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I got a B.A. in English from a very average midwest university, and my starting salary as a copy writer for a tiny rust belt business was $32k/yr with benefits in the recession of 1991! There is something weird about your story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post


I started work in July 2 months after I graduated from college in 2004 with a BSBA in Finance, after not being offered a single interview on 432 resumes sent out between October '03 and May '04 (I actually logged every single resume I sent out in to an Excel file), I finally was brought in to interview at a temp agency, who sent me to work for a large company doing work I could have done at age 10. The starting pay was $10.15 an hour with no benefits. At that time my ex-wife was making $8.50 an hour as a receptionist and a high school diploma, and at one point was making $10.45 (more then I was) as a receptionist.


By the way, my girlfriend has an English degree from Florida State, and her first job was a movie theatre, and her second was working for about $11 an hour as an editor. She still isnt making 32k and is several pay bands up in a major international company.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Oh, for goodness sake! This older Gen Xer (nearly a Boomer) isn't out buying plasmas and new cars. I'm using coupons, sharing one decade-old car with my husband, packing lunches, forgoing vacations, and saving a little less than half of our family's annual income, so we can retire before we're eighty-five.
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post



If you can save 10k a year, for 30 years, and pay off your house, you can easily manage, at age 65, to have no house payments (which take up 20-40% of the average persons gross income), and a life expectancy of 80, and income of about 50k a year.

You say you are saving half of your families income, which I imagine, is probably about 25-30k at least. I have no clue how you are figuring that its going to take that to retire before 85. 30k for 35 years is over 1 million dollars, and thats not even assuming any compounded growth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Your parents did a great thing for you, and they sound like wonderful, responsible people. They are also very lucky to have lived in a time when pensions and social security were a given. I don't think I'll be as fortunate, and chances are, neither will you.


Last time I checked, the military still has pensions as a given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Quit your whining. It's getting old, especially since it appears that you have it fairly good.


What whining? Why dont you quit your misinformation. Its apparent your English degree did zero for your concept of finance.
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