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Old 08-10-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,236,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
Interesting how many people wish to debate a logical fallacy. How do you know what people are thinking? Do you have a special hat for that?
Talking about statistically generalizations of a generational cohort is not a "logically fallacy". There are millions of Boomers that are well prepared and will retire right on schedule, but as a group they have under saved for retirement. There is a difference between a statistical generalization and an universal generalization, conflating the two is is a logically fallacy. Some Boomers on this thread seem to be getting a bit testy because they think a statistical claim about their cohort is a claim about them personally, but that is not so.

Really don't get what you are saying after this....
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I have managed people from age 14 (youth work program) to 77 in a management career spanning three decades now......
I was interested to see what you had to say, but then you started pulling out some of the typical lines. How exactly does managing people give you an insight into how the generations differ in their political knowledge? That is typically not something discussed between a manager and someone below him/her, not to mention the obvious issue that you are not interacting with the generations within the same period.

People tend to pay attention more to politics as they age, so the fact that older people are more politically aware today may or may not say anything about a real generational difference. How were today's Boomers when they were 20? When I was 20 I did not pay too much attention to politics either, it was not until around 25 or so that I started to become more interested in it.

You suggest that today's Americans are the most "undereducated" in 50 years, yet this conflicts with the fact that generation Y is the most college educated generation yet.

The problem is that the older generations always look at the younger with their generations glasses on. There are different values and that gets in the way of an objective appraisal of the true differences between the generations.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapat528 View Post
As far as dress in the workplace. Yes it makes a difference when one comes in with their midriff hanging out; this has nothing to do with generations but has to do with common sense and respect. WHY do you think so many companies have made dress codes?
Yeah, it makes no difference whether someone is in a midriff or a suit. These things are just cultural conventions, one does not work better when wearing a suit vs a midriff.

Generation X has largely changed what is considered appropriate business dress. Although it does not include midriffs, it is much different than previous generations. Just go walk around the headquarters of a company like Google, Apple, etc. As Generation Y starts to flood the work force they will also change what is considered appropriate dress. Tattoos, piercings, etc will likely be seen as kosher as well as a number of things that are currently not appropriate.

Every Gen-X business owner I know allows their employees to dress in ways that would be considered bad by previous generations.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:35 PM
 
4,711 posts, read 11,515,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The baby boomers as a whole seem to refuse to retire, or at least anytime soon. I wonder whether what effect this will have on the unemployment rate. From my experience with boomers, there seems to be a few reasons why they are avoiding retirement.

1.) Retiring means you're "old" and boomers want to believe they are forever young.
2.) Many have not saved enough for retirement and the crappy equity markets over the last decade (if you bought and hold over the last 10 years you would have not gained much) have made their projections rather inaccurate. As a result they must continue to work.
3.) Many seem to think that their lifestyle during retirement was going to be the same as when they were 50 something, on two incomes and had all the kids out of the house.
4.) Many kept moving up in the housing market as a result they still owe a significant mortgage on their home. The collapse in the real estate market in many cases seems to have eaten awhile a good deal of their equity. They can longer sell their McMansion and purchase a smaller home cash. Many don't seem interested in purchasing a small home in the first place...(i.e, don't want to reduce their standard of living).

Anyhow, so if they continue to avoid retirement will it cause an elevated unemployment rate for some time? Will it make it more difficult for the younger generations to get employed?

You seem to be very angry at your parents....have you sought counseling? To put tens of millions of people into your four little boxes is just plain crazy....


But if it makes you feel better, I retired at 53 from a six-figure government career. I had lucrative offers to join contractors (aka Beltway Bandits)...and offers to teach at the university level. I turned them all down....I had enough of the rat race.

Instead, I took a job driving a school bus...is that non-threatening enough for you? I LOVE the job and am treated very well by the County school district I drive for. The reason I am treated so well is because there is severe shortage of drivers. Probably 75% of our Gen X, Y, etc job applicants are immediately disqualified because they either can't pass the drug test, have horrible driving records, or both.

Boomers get the kids to school! LOL
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:36 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,141,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
You suggest that today's Americans are the most "undereducated" in 50 years, yet this conflicts with the fact that generation Y is the most college educated generation yet.
Thanks to diluted standards and "grade inflation," a college degree does not represent the same level of knowledge as it used to. A number of the younger people I managed had advanced degrees from some pretty high-falutin' universities. Guess what? I have a "lowly" BA from a small state college--but plenty of experience in the real world in several different career areas. So, I was hired to manage them. My two best managers over the years did not even have degrees remotely related to their career field--one of them won a prestigious national award for his work one year; the other recipient of the same award that year had also won an adjunct to the Nobel Prize.

Point is, when I say "undereducated," I don't only refer to college education--it is whole life education. Way too many, especially in the younger generations, think that a college education is all they need to succeed. Well, baby, that's just the start. The successful people I know never quit learning--never quit. I had a lady who worked for me who basically trained herself, starting when she was already near to retirement age of 65, to use some very complex computer software to do some very detailed and meticulous work. She would attend conferences where most of her work peers were young enough to be her grandchildren. They had advanced degrees; she had a high school education, but just flat wouldn't quit until she figured out how to do something. She was teaching them how to do stuff that they had spent four years and more in college supposedly learning.

As the old saying goes, "You can have 20 years of experience, or you can have two years of experience ten times over." I believe in the former, too many people today essentially have the latter--but think they should be compensated as if they had the 20 years experience. Or, worse yet, they don't even know the difference between the two.

PS--If you translate the old northern New Mexico saying that is my "Status" statement, it sort of encapsulates my life view when it comes to experience.

Last edited by jazzlover; 08-10-2009 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:40 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 5,205,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The wording was a bit bad, what I mean is that the ones somewhat close to retirement do not seem very interested in retiring. That is they don't seem to be planning to retire when they are 62 or 65. Both my parents retired from their public jobs a few years ago and receive pensions, yet they still continue to work almost full time else where. The issue seems to be that they don't want to give up certain things and they think they are forever young. Its sort of funny..
It's "sort of funny" how you think your parents should be put out to pasture because of an arbitrary number.

Work keeps people busy, and busy people are both happier and healthier than their sedentary counterparts. My grandfather worked until the day he died, and he didn't do it for the money. He even tried to retire once or twice, but he just wasn't cut out to sit by the fire watching the world go by. There are many of us out there who don't need the money, but that doesn't mean we don't need to work.
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
You seem to be very angry at your parents....have you sought counseling? To put tens of millions of people into your four little boxes is just plain crazy....
I'm angry at my parents because I'm talking about the potential effects of the boomers on the labor market? Err.....okay. My parents were not great, but I could have been a lot worse off. I always had food, a place to stay, etc. I'm not angry at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
Probably 75% of our Gen X, Y, etc job applicants are immediately disqualified because they either can't pass the drug test, have horrible driving records, or both.
I've never heard about any major differences in accidents, etc between the generations. If true, I'd imagine the auto insurance companies would charge me more than say my parents. But they don't. Now teenagers...that is a different story.

In terms of drugs...start testing for alcohol in addition to marijuana and get back to me.
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,236,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
It's "sort of funny" how you think your parents should be put out to pasture because of an arbitrary number.
Considering humans have a particular lifespan its not really a arbitrary number. But, its not so much that they did not stop working when they were X years old....but rather the reasons why they continue to work. They act as if they will never get old....despite the fact that they are already old! They also do silly things financially...but that is a bit of a different issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
Work keeps people busy, and busy people are both happier and healthier than their sedentary counterparts.
Honestly, if you need to "work" to keep yourself happy and busy you're probably pretty boring.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:11 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 5,205,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Honestly, if you need to "work" to keep yourself happy and busy you're probably pretty boring.
You have a lot to learn...
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,470 posts, read 18,236,623 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Thanks to diluted standards and "grade inflation," a college degree does not represent the same level of knowledge as it used to.
Yeah, another typical line. Don't you find it a bit ironic that those older always seem to suggest that things are "progressively getting worse"? Today's youth is dumber than your generation, has a crappier work ethic, is more politically ignorant, can't communicate well...etc. Yet...when a researcher actually tries to demonstrate these supposed facts held by older folks they do not come out with clear results. There has been some degree of grade inflation, but whether this is the result of "diluted standards" or better students is not so easily demonstrated. Of course the, older folks will gladly take it on faith. Whatever makes them feel superior to those young whipper snappers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
A number of the younger people I managed had advanced degrees from some pretty high-falutin' universities. Guess what? I have a "lowly" BA from a small state college--but plenty of experience in the real world in several different career areas. So, I was hired to manage them.
What exactly is your point? Have companies ever hired people straight out of college into management positions? No.... It sounds like you have some issues with your lowly BA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Way too many, especially in the younger generations, think that a college education is all they need to succeed.
I would agree that Generation Y and to some degree X think that a college degree is a sort of meal ticket. But that says little about their level of education in what they studied, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
...She was teaching them how to do stuff that they had spent four years and more in college supposedly learning.
For every such story, I can tell you one of an older person that can't figure out how to use even the most basic features of a computer despite endless hours of instruction. These sorts of stories don't tell us anything important above the individuals involved in the stories though.

I find it a bit funny that you focus so much on experience, yet don't seem to think that perhaps some of the differences you see are the result of the fact that you have far more experience in the work world (and world in general) vs those that are younger rather than some major generational difference.
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