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Firstly, people worked more back than, not less. Yes, single income families were more common but that is a shift in cultural attitudes not a shift in how the economy works. Secondly, I have no idea what you mean by "debt was optional". In what sense is it mandatory today?!? Just as today, the majority of people used debt to make major purchases (home, car, etc) back then.
I suppose if you only think one second about it? But products take raw materials and these materials not only have to be extracted they are finite. What were luxury items back then are now common household items...the prices have gone down at the same time the products are much better.
This is again not to mention that mass production existed far before the 1930's and 1940's, for example Ford had already streamed lined automobile manufacturing in the 1910's.
Its just really odd that you are trying to draw information about the economy back then from a TV show that involved three morons running around hitting themselves.....
Its not romanticized at all.
-The nuclear family isnt romanticized.
-Mom or dad coming home from work at a decent hour isnt romanticized.
-The general stress level and quality of life.
I think its fascinating how quickly things changed in 50 years. The 1950 family was advanced vs the 1900 family. TV, appliances, better cars, etc. But they werent up to their eyeballs in debt. Vs the 2000's family with blackberries, microwaves, digital cameras, etc.
I think it'd be very hard to start a life now and not have to go into debt (at some point in your life). For most of the country (who arent living in the country or an inexpensive state).
I dont trust the govt or media explanations about the economy at all. Where the economy "grows" 3% a year, or CPI is 3%. And there's a "recovery" around every corner. That's sillier than a 3 stooges eye poke.
And it makes me question some of these arguements now, like illegal aliens bring down wages and have ruined things. Maybe govt policies have brought down wages and illegals are a scapgoat. There was immigrant labor from 1900 to 1950, but it didnt wreck wages like today.
Yeah, but the average wage was less than $2,000/yr. Everything is relative and not "everything was a dollar or a nickel" but sure things were priced in line with wages.
Debt is still optional. No one forces you to go into debt. In many states like mine, you can get free college tuition if you work hard enough. You do not have to go into massive debt to get an education. Back in the 30's people took out mortgages and bought things on credit. There just wasn't the widespread use of revolving and unsecured credit.
Ever hear of debtor's prison? Again, no one forces you to go into debt. It's a choice. There are scholarships and ways to get an education without racking up huge debt. You do not have to use credit cards....save up and pay as you go.
True to some extent before the new deal, but after 1935 not true.
Back then most people didn't go to college, they got a good paying UNION job in a Factory, producing Products
Everyone walked to work and lived within walking distance of the Factory where they worked.
-The nuclear family isnt romanticized.
-Mom or dad coming home from work at a decent hour isnt romanticized.
-The general stress level and quality of life.
I think its fascinating how quickly things changed in 50 years. The 1950 family was advanced vs the 1900 family. TV, appliances, better cars, etc. But they werent up to their eyeballs in debt. Vs the 2000's family with blackberries, microwaves, digital cameras, etc.
I think it'd be very hard to start a life now and not have to go into debt (at some point in your life). For most of the country (who arent living in the country or an inexpensive state).
I dont trust the govt or media explanations about the economy at all. Where the economy "grows" 3% a year, or CPI is 3%. And there's a "recovery" around every corner. That's sillier than a 3 stooges eye poke.
And it makes me question some of these arguements now, like illegal aliens bring down wages and have ruined things. Maybe govt policies have brought down wages and illegals are a scapgoat. There was immigrant labor from 1900 to 1950, but it didnt wreck wages like today.
government policies did bring down wages, but, as well, illegal immigrant migration in the large numbers that occurred did cause even more disruption of the working population balance, which also hurt the wage structure. it only makes sense that if you have more people competing in an over-saturated work pool you will have lower wages. it is the law of supply and demand.
Bascaily this generation needs to wakeup and quit feeling sorry for themsleves. Most couldn't take life in the 50"s;it was too hard compared to now. We should be at a popint where the college education is at a 50% level ;not the high school dropout rate approaching that.Its easy to see why the income gap is growing in todays world.
Bascaily this generation needs to wakeup and quit feeling sorry for themsleves. Most couldn't take life in the 50"s;it was too hard compared to now. We should be at a popint where the college education is at a 50% level ;not the high school dropout rate approaching that.Its easy to see why the income gap is growing in todays world.
On the contrary, I lived in San Francisco where life was almost exactly like the 1950s. Public Transportation, Mom and Pop stores, Butcher Shops, Produce Markets. Two things you didn't use a lot, your car and your fridge.
Ozzie and Harriets America is alive and well.
And it makes me question some of these arguements now, like illegal aliens bring down wages and have ruined things. Maybe govt policies have brought down wages and illegals are a scapgoat. There was immigrant labor from 1900 to 1950, but it didnt wreck wages like today.
They've done good things as well as bad things. The huge influx of illegal immigrants added fuel to the fire during the housing boom not only by providing a cheap source of labor, but also by filling up rental units which in turn drove up the price of homes. Now if we kick them all out, we run a real risk of crashing home prices even further into the ground. I'm in favor of that, but a lot of people would rather see them stay here than to lose more of their equity.
I'd love to see our nation actually enforce it's immigration policies, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
So we all know that we are a consumer based economy..about 70% of the GDP is based on that.
But I did read this morning with the unemployment report that 80% of jobs are in the service sector...80% is quite a big percentage. That leaves 20% left for production type jobs.
So we are consumer driven, service based economy. That makes us very dependent on spending and spending on stuff that we don't even make here in the US. Kinda sad that the US has evolved to this....relying on debt and imports to keep the wheels moving. Innovation (R&D) seems to have headed over to India where they are churning out PhD's by the thousands; China as well but not in great numbers (most likely due to patent laws and China's reputation).
I think one of the big differences is in the 30's you pretty much didn't have consumer debt, and now the option is available. The big thing people don't want to hear is you don't have to take on debt, and if you do there is a big difference between responsible and irresponsible borrowing (it's not just no debt and crippling debt as options). In the early part of the century I also think people had more of a idea that they were in control of their own fate instead of everything is happening to them because of every one else.
I know my parents had a different life then me, I hear stories from my extended family every time I go. Growing up none of them were coddled, if they weren't doing well in class they needed to fix it (it wasn't "My teacher hates me" or "This is unfair" crap) and they had farm work to do when they got home (hogs are not nice animals). Each had to pay their way through college, working odd jobs to pay rent and tuition (or scholarships, no loans or help with the grand folks). After that most did what they could with what they had, worked hard for promotions and worked hard while they made due till they saved to buy things.
Now it's very different, no one takes responsibility for themselves...let alone to make the right decision. When people get out of high school it's like they want to be better then where their parents left off when they left, after years of promotions, savings, and earning. People want it now, so bring on the debt. Then many feel bad looking at the balances, so go out shopping again!
Add into that the plethora of college degrees, many useless compared to the big 6 types in the 40's...business, engineering, teaching, medicine, lawyers and research science. You have now people with degrees that make no sense and earn no money (colleges give people what they demand), but you can't ask people what they were thinking because "everything is tolerated". People stay in college for as long as possible now too, I have friends so terrified of growing up they are 10 year undergrads. There comes your huge college debts.
-The nuclear family isnt romanticized.
-Mom or dad coming home from work at a decent hour isnt romanticized.
-The general stress level and quality of life.
Huh? Dude....your view of the past is romanticized TV junk. Have you even bothered to look things up? Of course not, who cares about actual history.
"-The nuclear family isnt romanticized." What does that even mean? Nuclear families exist today just as well as yesterday. Are you trying to suggest that everyone was living in a happy little family back then? Unwed [SIZE=-1]pregnancies grew rapidly in the 1940's, national divorce rates were about the same as they were in the 90's, etc. [/SIZE]
"-Mom or dad coming home from work at a decent hour isnt romanticized." I don't get this either, individuals work less hours now not more. The majority of people work 9~5 jobs.
"-The general stress level and quality of life." Is this a joke? Yeah, no strees between 1930~1940's. There was just the great depression and the largest war the global as ever seen...no stress at all! What planet are you on? Honeslty, do yourself a favor. Put the TV shows away and go have a face to face conversation with someone both in the 20's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23
I think it'd be very hard to start a life now and not have to go into debt (at some point in your life).
Yeah, I'm sure you do.... But why? Why do you need debt today but did not need it before? The only thing that is at all different is the case of education, but far fewer people went to college back then. But you don't need to go into debt to go to college.
I think one of the big differences is in the 30's you pretty much didn't have consumer debt, and now the option is available.
Where in the world do you guys get this stuff!?! Consumer debt was used frequently in the 1930's!. Consumer credit is not new, it has existed for a rather long time. Instead of credit cards you look at loans for individual products. Want a new shiny toaster? Here is a 3-year payment plan... Consumer credit exploded in the 20's...of course in the 30's it declined because it was the depression and people were not buying as much stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound
Now it's very different, no one takes responsibility for themselves...let alone to make the right decision.
Yes, and they like to whine and pretend as if those before them had it so much easier.
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