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Enjoy being duped today because tomorrow you shall be reamed and then next year you'll be flogged and the year after that you'll be enslaved and the year after that you may very well be exterminated/starve/perish.
So let's all sit around and enjoy today. No need to plan or work. We can act like a bunch of peace loving yet greedy hippies and defer everything til another day. Ah the good life... everything is just soooo peachy keen today.
my grandparents didn't take yearly vacations. They held onto their cars for at least 10 years, usually longer; they still drive a 1986 Lincoln. They were both public school teachers, and they still live in the same home they bought in the 1950's.
yet, my parents managed to live better than they did. They traded their cars in about every 10 years, we lived in a ranch house and went on vacations every year.
and yet still, me and my brother manage to live better than our parents did. Shock! I know.
So yeah, I can throw worthless anecdotes out there too. Bottom line is that goods like Microwaves, Big Macs and Blue Jeans are cheaper, relative to our incomes, than they were 20 years ago, thanks to globalization. All we need now is an efficient healthcare system (whose problems are not caused by globalization, btw..), and let the 2000's debt frenzy subside, and it is no comparison; average incomes can buy much more today than they could 20 years ago, because globally we are more productive than ever before.
I dont live better then my parents did at my age. My Dad made more money as an enlisted navy man then I do with a 4 year degree in Finance, and housing was WAY cheaper. I may live better then them at their age, but likely mostly because I inherit all of what they accumulated (well, actually, a third of it).
Here is one thing Ive thought about, any industry that raised the price of its product 10% every year, there would be riots, complaints and people would stop buying. Ever notice how college tuition FAR OUTRANKS the rate of inflation. Talk about a racket. They may think their "consumers" are captive now, but since the jobs are disappearing, people are realizing the pay off isnt there.
No, actually, they arent realizing the pay off isnt there. Actually, just the opposite is happening. People are going in to even MORE debt, and getting more degrees and certifications to get an increasingly lower level of jobs.
Just the other day, I saw, for the first time, an accounts payable job, likely paying $8.50 an hour, requiring a bachelors degree. Ten years ago, this required an associates degree at most, and 20 years ago, any Tom, Dick or Harry could have fallen in to this job.
The solution for people is never going to be to buck the system on a whole, and protest the college racket. Their answer is going to continue to be, "How can I be more qualified then the next guy".
Eventually, it will be common to see people flipping burgers with masters degrees, and people will take those jobs, because the alternative will be to starve.
I think the consumer issue has sort of become overblown. It's been used as a way to divert attention from declining wages, declining job stability, the college racket, etc.
The thing is, people have always traded up. They've always wanted better things. Did people really *need* that 57 Chevy, vs an earlier model? Did they need that new television set, when they use to be entertained by the radio?
At some point it got silly, like the $30 k kitchen, or the 65" tv you don't need. But even if you reverse those, it still doesn't put much money in your pocket. It doesnt make up for the instability in jobs. It doesnt make up for....30 years ago, everyone was racing ahead, building a downpayment for a home. And now everyone is racing the other way, trying to hold onto a weaker job, with weaker benefits, and most of your money is going to student loans.
Student loans that you can't discharge in bankruptcy. Vs 30 years ago, a mortgage, and deducting mortgage interest on your taxes. The whole situation has reversed tremendously.
There is financial aid for those who have an extremely limited income, unless of course you are looking into one of the big universities. I've been to college.....a couple of times. I am horrified at the lifestyles of some of the people who are getting financial aid AND take out student loans as well. Are you kidding me? Never, once, did I take out a student loan. I worked as a work study, packed my own lunch, brought my own drinks from home, etc. On occasion, I bought PLAIN coffee for $1 per cup (in my own cup)...I did NOT buy a couple of $3.50-$4 coffee's from the espresso stand on campus. I am appalled by the waste I see around me on a daily basis.
It's ridiculous how many people out there no longer actually know how to cook. I am blown away at how ignorant people have become, how completely dependent they have become on other people, because they only know how to do one thing.....if that! I don't think the consumer issue has been overblown at all! Many of our parents and grandparents made sacrifices, worked their butts off. They didn't just work 8 hours per day and call it good! They worked 8 hours per day AT work. They put in another (at least) 4-6 hours at home! We always had a garden, raised our own chickens, pigs and cows. We canned much of our own food and always shopped sales.
In our home here, we shop sales, can some of our foods, use our freezer and don't always eat what we want.....but rather, what is on sale. We don't buy the expensive brand names, don't trade up on our vehicles, and in fact, do NOT bother to trade up at all unless it's just not worth fixing any more! In some instances, of course, job losses really are an issue, as well as high rent costs and low paying jobs, but I'm sorry, most people simply do not understand the word "sacrifice"...much less the concept!
There is financial aid for those who have an extremely limited income, unless of course you are looking into one of the big universities. I've been to college.....a couple of times. I am horrified at the lifestyles of some of the people who are getting financial aid AND take out student loans as well. Are you kidding me? Never, once, did I take out a student loan. I worked as a work study, packed my own lunch, brought my own drinks from home, etc. On occasion, I bought PLAIN coffee for $1 per cup (in my own cup)...I did NOT buy a couple of $3.50-$4 coffee's from the espresso stand on campus. I am appalled by the waste I see around me on a daily basis.
It's ridiculous how many people out there no longer actually know how to cook. I am blown away at how ignorant people have become, how completely dependent they have become on other people, because they only know how to do one thing.....if that! I don't think the consumer issue has been overblown at all! Many of our parents and grandparents made sacrifices, worked their butts off. They didn't just work 8 hours per day and call it good! They worked 8 hours per day AT work. They put in another (at least) 4-6 hours at home! We always had a garden, raised our own chickens, pigs and cows. We canned much of our own food and always shopped sales.
In our home here, we shop sales, can some of our foods, use our freezer and don't always eat what we want.....but rather, what is on sale. We don't buy the expensive brand names, don't trade up on our vehicles, and in fact, do NOT bother to trade up at all unless it's just not worth fixing any more! In some instances, of course, job losses really are an issue, as well as high rent costs and low paying jobs, but I'm sorry, most people simply do not understand the word "sacrifice"...much less the concept!
Very true. People are too dependent on overpriced products, or the next fad lifestyle or fad concept. Instead of being self sufficient. People dont know how to do anything anymore. Marketers and experts tell them what to do.
I agree, theres a ridiculous amount of waste going on. Whether buying an iphone on the first day at an inflated price, or $3-4 starbucks coffee.
2/3 of college students borrow to pay for school, with an average debt of $23 k. In areas of high rents and low paying jobs, this is crazy. 30 years ago, your earnings overcame your debt, and you were building real savings.
Just the other day, I saw, for the first time, an accounts payable job, likely paying $8.50 an hour, requiring a bachelors degree. Ten years ago, this required an associates degree at most, and 20 years ago, any Tom, Dick or Harry could have fallen in to this job.
The solution for people is never going to be to buck the system on a whole, and protest the college racket. Their answer is going to continue to be, "How can I be more qualified then the next guy".
Eventually, it will be common to see people flipping burgers with masters degrees, and people will take those jobs, because the alternative will be to starve.
I think people are going to wake up to this eventually.
I think the real game going forward might be money management, lifestyle management, vs constantly trading up for more degrees, with less and less benefit.
The country has splintered radically in the last 20-30 years. I remember in the 80's growing up, most middle class areas were within about 10-20% of each other, plus or minus. There wasnt much variance whether you lived in so cal, dallas, houston, pennsylvania. People had normal mortgages (20% down, payments in line with income). People didnt need advanced degrees to put food on the table. You had a bachelors or masters, you came home by 6 or 7.
Now, it really depends on where you live. In some places, a bachelors or masters still has a lot of value. In some places it can buy you a home, say texas or the midwest. In other places, its become worthless (say california). Its a permanent negative if you're going to be in student debt forever, with hardly any money left over.
Housing has gotten very tricky. The paradigm of 30 years ago, almost everyone (across the country) had enough cushions in place, that they really couldnt screw it up. You had to be very absent minded or very speculative to screw up housing in the 70's and 80's.
Home buying now has turned into an illusion, because its supported by this crumbing foundation of jobs and benefits. Unless you have the cushions that you had 30 years, it's speculative (vs how the boomers bought their homes).
I believe college has become a racket, rather then a true place for learning...they sell to careers that dont even exsist anymore. One can learn without a college now, especially without the internet. The licensure via degree stuff keeps the system going. I wish the days were around where one could take the bar exam with no law school required.
Public education dumbs down the population more then teaching real skills that can lead to success in career place. Go to vocational school and learn trade you can fall back on. If I had high school to do over, I would have done that, and then gone to college if I had chosen to.
I remember how much college cost even in the late 80s and how they had their hand constantly out, even to apply for each teaching job, cost me 5 bucks for them to send the records to the school, and I thought it was a complete and utter scam.
High school counselors and the like, do not tell young people what it is really like out there to make a living. I know I was left in the dark until I had to learn the truth the hard way. All the "Believe and you will achieve" books, never offered real concrete real world advice.
My money for college would have been better spent on a small house in my high school community or on opening a business.
Agree 100% with your post.... I made very similar arguments on this thread...
On occasion, I bought PLAIN coffee for $1 per cup (in my own cup)...I did NOT buy a couple of $3.50-$4 coffee's from the espresso stand on campus. I am appalled by the waste I see around me on a daily basis.
You were smart but don't blame the kids many simply follow the parents example.
Quote:
It's ridiculous how many people out there no longer actually know how to cook. I am blown away at how ignorant people have become, how completely dependent they have become on other people, because they only know how to do one thing.....if that!
I realized how ignorant I was of so many things, even now, {I picked up some life skills from church, baking bread, and sewing in my 30s--it was small country church where some people were farmers etc} but seriously growing up in the suburbs I didnt learn anything practical either, though my brother did learn some computer and car repair from my Dad.
Quote:
I don't think the consumer issue has been overblown at all! Many of our parents and grandparents made sacrifices, worked their butts off. They didn't just work 8 hours per day and call it good! They worked 8 hours per day AT work. They put in another (at least) 4-6 hours at home! We always had a garden, raised our own chickens, pigs and cows. We canned much of our own food and always shopped sales.
I agree....things were different for generations bnefore. But one thing, think about this, people are so land poor now, they cant live those lives, they dont have the land to support even a few livestock. I would read Backwoods Home magazines, seriously for fun while living in an apt, knowing Id never have the health [in my case long story], money, or land to actually live that lifestyle. I am not glamorizing the farm life, it was hard, but something was lost, as people went to suburbs and forgot some of the "old" skills. Lately I am wondering what "virtual lives" are doing to people.....If I was young and healthy again, and had it to do over, I would have been tempted to join the Amish or Hutterites or something, or at the very least focused perhaps on a more country oriented life. I was brought up a total city girl, even living in giant metro areas, near subways...and found out I loved small town life, no make that adored it, thought I was in an apt, and only saw aspects of it through friends, when I was in my 30s.
People who are with out land, do become poor. This is one thing historically that held precedent, ever wonder why people fought and died to own land? Ah Im thinking off the top of my head here. Perhaps I'm too out in left field here but if one has no land, to expand or do things with, or have some self sufficiency then something is lost. I can't even grow my own tomatoes because I dont even have a patio...LOL {yes I looked even to rent houses but could not afford one}
I dont live better then my parents did at my age. My Dad made more money as an enlisted navy man then I do with a 4 year degree in Finance, and housing was WAY cheaper. I may live better then them at their age, but likely mostly because I inherit all of what they accumulated (well, actually, a third of it).
This is how I think of it...
My hsuband had jobs dont want to say what it is..where a middle class life, job, car, vacation every two weeks was assured, now adays youre lucky if you can afford the rent. It really is not the same. I did jobs that once upon a time guaranteed a middle class life, social workers and teachers never raked it in buckets, but they could afford a decent house and lifestyle, in the 90s in Chicago, I could barely stay housed.
t seems to me like you're freaking out because you made bad decisions with your life.
You are right, I did. Everyone makes mistakes. I got sick too. Very sick Im talking almost dead in my 20s. If I had kept normal health I think things would have turned out far different.
However, my art teacher at my high school lived a pretty decent life, he had a nice house down the road from my parents, why would I think itd be any different for me?
I was actually a good art teacher, a student even won national award when I was teaching.
I just want to remind you thought, remember how I said I had friends with money, I know how some of them have had their portfolios have major hits. They dont tell me any exact amounts but they tell me how things are going generally. Playing whistling by the graveyard ignoring what is going on in this country, may make you feel good now, but do not expect the system to continue even for you as it always has been.
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