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Old 10-29-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
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When you subsidize something, you tend to get more of it. If we subsidize failure and mediocrity we will encourage more of it in the future. The thing that makes capitalism work is the element of survival of the fittest. When you remove that self regulating mechanism from the system, you remove the balance, and the overall system declines.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:28 AM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,754,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
When you subsidize something, you tend to get more of it. If we subsidize failure and mediocrity we will encourage more of it in the future. The thing that makes capitalism work is the element of survival of the fittest. When you remove that self regulating mechanism from the system, you remove the balance, and the overall system declines.
the best way to fix the system is to pull government backed support out of these companies. they will not take risks unnecessarily without a government guarantee. if they are going to fail, let them fail and cut the losses!
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:36 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,598,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
When you subsidize something, you tend to get more of it. If we subsidize failure and mediocrity we will encourage more of it in the future. The thing that makes capitalism work is the element of survival of the fittest. When you remove that self regulating mechanism from the system, you remove the balance, and the overall system declines.
Thats the rhetoric alright.

The reality is that Capitalism abhors competition, always has , always will.
Used to be taken care of by Trusts, monopolies, collusion etc.
Now in the age of big goverments it, of course, adds feeding at the public trough at will to its bill of rights.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:38 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,598,665 times
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Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the best way to fix the system is to pull government backed support out of these companies. they will not take risks unnecessarily without a government guarantee. if they are going to fail, let them fail and cut the losses!
Correct course alright.
However, overlooks the fact that, they ARE the government.
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:32 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,754,993 times
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it is a sad course that we are now embarked upon:

The financial insiders running the Treasury, White House, and Federal Reserve shifted to taxpayers the cost of the catastrophe that they had created. When the crisis hit, Henry Paulson, appointed by President Bush as Rubin’s replacement as the Goldman Sachs representative running the US Treasury, hyped fear to obtain from “our” representatives in Congress with no questions asked hundreds of billions of taxpayers’ dollars (TARP money) to bail out Goldman Sachs and the other malefactors of unregulated derivatives.

When Goldman Sachs recently announced that it was paying massive six and seven figure bonuses to every employee, public outrage erupted. In defense of banksters, saved with the public’s money, paying themselves bonuses in excess of most people’s life-time earnings, Lord Griffiths, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs International, said that the public must learn to “tolerate the inequality as a way to achieve greater prosperity for all.” In other words, “Let them eat cake.”

Despite the total insanity of unregulated derivatives, the high level of public anger, and Greenspan’s confession to Congress, still nothing has been done to regulate derivatives. One of Rubin’s Assistant Treasury Secretaries, Gary Gensler, has replaced Brooksley Born as head of the CFTC. Larry Summers is the head of President Obama’s National Economic Council. Former Federal Reserve official Timothy Geithner, a Paulson protege, runs the Obama Treasury. A Goldman Sachs vice president, Adam Storch, has been appointed the chief operating officer of the Securities and Exchange Commission. The Banksters are still in charge.

Is there another country in which in full public view so few so blatantly use government for the enrichment of private interests, with a coterie of “free market” economists available to justify plunder on the grounds that “the market knows best”? A narco-state is bad enough. The US surpasses this horror with its financo-state.

As Brooksley Born says, if nothing is done “it’ll happen again.”

(information clearing house)

dark markets have now grown to $680 trillion of notional value, according to the Bank for International Settlements -- "more than 10 times the amount of the gross national product of all the countries in the world".
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,229 posts, read 12,225,331 times
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Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the best way to fix the system is to pull government backed support out of these companies. they will not take risks unnecessarily without a government guarantee. if they are going to fail, let them fail and cut the losses!

are you kidding me??? Those big 'ole bonuses were a pretty big risk !!
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Acres
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Originally Posted by SVTLightning View Post
It doesnt matter how much money GMAC has, people for the most part are not buying cars these days.
you sir, are wrong

I worked, until recently at the smallest Chrysler Dealership known to man. I worked half the month and sold more cars than the larger dealership in towns' top 3 guys have done all month... people ARE buying cars.

GMAC does more leasing for the dealership I was at, than buying though.
GMAC owned Chrysler Financial from what I understand, and instead of having a subsidiary bank do the lending, decided to take it themselves.
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
are you kidding me??? Those big 'ole bonuses were a pretty big risk !!
they weren't risky at all! those banksters should have been putting their money aside for their next rainy day, but evidently don't feel the need to do that since they have the government backing / taxpayer funded guarantee.

i particularly like this quote about more money for GMAC:

"We are in too deep for us to sensibly back out now,” said Douglas Elliott, a former investment banker who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution. “We will probably lose less money by putting in more now.”

this is the 3rd trip to the bailout tree for GMAC.

Last edited by floridasandy; 10-29-2009 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,229 posts, read 12,225,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
those banksters should have been putting their money aside for their next rainy day, but evidently don't feel the need to do that since they have the government backing / taxpayer funded guarantee.


the banker types were getting big bonuses LONG before the bailout...
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:06 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,754,993 times
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i am not sure that americans object to bonuses, as long as they are not forced to bail out the companies who award them, or are at risk of having to bail them out again because no regulations are yet in place.

that is where the objection lies.
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