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View Poll Results: What do you expect from the economy in the nest 5 years?
A sudden crash. 4 5.33%
A slow steady downward trend. 31 41.33%
About the same, with ups and downs. 17 22.67%
Some overall improvement. 17 22.67%
End of recession and back to economic strength. 6 8.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-28-2009, 10:08 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
Reputation: 7457

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traderx View Post
Well then , show some balls and make your vision happen instead of asking others to do it for you. Or do you just like to whine like a little baby? You can start by holding true to your beliefs and quitting your job that exists because someone put their balls on the line. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder brother.

Did I ask you something? I have my vision, however, since I was born without the right to exist (I have the right to speak though, most don't use it much because they don't have the right to exist ), or any subsistence means primitive (and not so primitive) cultures bestowed on every newborn, I must sell my arse to come to the point of quitting my job (I'm not suicidal yet). Does it mean that slave and serves should worship their masters because at some point they put balls on the line for their enslavement, so that slaves could have "jobs"?

That job exist also because a wage slave cannot do without it. A necessary step for mass wage economies is destruction of non market means of subsistence, otherwise there is no way to force people into most of the jobs out there.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:15 PM
 
975 posts, read 1,754,878 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Did I ask you something? I have my vision, however, since I was born without the right to exist (I have the right to speak though, most don't use it much because they don't have the right to exist ), or any subsistence means primitive (and not so primitive) cultures bestowed on every newborn, I must sell my arse to come to the point of quitting my job (I'm not suicidal yet). Does it mean that slave and serves should worship their masters because at some point they put balls on the line for their enslavement, so that they could have "jobs"? Prisoners in the remote prison would not survive without their jailers, should they worship them?
You were talkin to me. If you can't take a response then shut the f--- up you whinny little brat.

No wonder your own mother disowned you. You are absolutely nuts dude and more than a little jacked up I'm willing to bet. Btw, that Black Panther BS was old in the 60's and it's still old.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 26,747,624 times
Reputation: 5038
Until real incomes rise, this is a downward trend. The vast difference between the incomes of those at the top versus the average indicates third world status ahead. Those with special connections to Government and who the system mandates advantages for are basically useless baggage weighing down the economy. The only thing that could save the US economy would be a hard, devastating crash that wipes out vast fortunes and liquidates suffocating debt. If the deflation is stopped by further funny money inflation it only benefits the select elite and the lucky. There is no such thing as a "jobless recovery" unless the average American is going to replace wages with dividends from the increased profits from company stock. Fat chance. No income, no spending, reduced GDP.

Level the playing field and let the innovators save the economy. It has happened several times and last with the internet revolution of the 90's. Energy has to be the next innovation or we are done for. Remember, the financial sector cannot create wealth, only redistribute wealth created by labor and innovation.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:59 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,545,794 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post

What we need is something "visionaryless".
Or to operate dollarless.
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:59 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traderx View Post
You were talkin to me. If you can't take a response then shut the f--- up you whinny little brat.
[i]Well then , show some balls and make your vision happen instead of asking others to do it for you. [/quote]
Did I ask you and like you for something?

Quote:
No wonder your own mother disowned you. You are absolutely nuts dude and more than a little jacked up I'm willing to bet. Btw, that Black Panther BS was old in the 60's and it's still old.
I know you are trained to see the world in certain approved ways, sorry, there are other ways to look on things, non visionary centric ones, they have nothing to do with Black Panthers. You may dislike what I said, especially if your trough is full of swill at this time, but you'll be hearing that stuff more and more. American wage slave class is nearly hopelessly pussified, dumbed down and brainwashed, but necessity is a great mind opener.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,085,650 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Well, so I did. Turns out the US model fits the Empire concept quite well . . .
No, its rather different. Obviously different administrations have been more imperialistic than others, but to this day there is still no American empire. You appear to just be mistaking the (failed) imperialistic tendencies of a particular administration with actual empire building. But this is all irrelevant, if you want to think the US is an empire akin to the British empire go for it. Trying to draw some doom and gloom from this makes no sense though... But I guess that is what the doom and gloom club is all about, trying to turn everything and anything into something negative.

Not sure what point you think there is in selectively quoting things...
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,890,969 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traderx View Post
I think the next 5 years will be a lot like the last 230. The US and hence the American way of life will be on the constant verge of collaspe as seemingly insurmountable problems face us on almost a daily basis.
The difference now vs the last 230 years, is in the last 10-15 years, we've had a severe breakdown in our system, the likes of which no one has seen in our lifetime.

-Nationalizing c, aig, fnm, etc.
-Break down in law, break down in trust.
-Rampant corruption and fraud on wall street, by rating agencies, collusion and backdoor dealings in the trillions of dollars. In history books in highschool, they teach kids about the robber barons of 80 or 100 years ago. And how JP Morgan or Rockefeller "owned" the country. Or they had tremendous influence. Of course now, in our "democracy", that isn't the case. Is it?

The deals created by Goldman Sachs, Paulson, etc, these people are the modern day robber barons.

-Incredible transfer of wealth in the last 30 years, from the west to the east. 30 years ago, China was dirt poor. They have $2 trillion in reserves. I dont think thats ever happened in world history.

We could be bailed out by energy or another innovation. But the guts of the economy have been transfered elsewhere. Innovations in the last 30 years have been an illusion for the average middle class family. It sounds good on paper, we had a technology boom in the 90's. And we created lots of jobs. But whats the end result. All these economic "recoveries" of the last 30 years havent really done much for the average family.

The next 5 years,

-6 to 14/15% unemployment or higher.
-Higher real inflation.
-Higher oil and commodity prices in the next 5 years.
-Real estate another 2nd or 3rd wave downward as prices catch up to income. Between loans resetting, retiring wealthy (baby boomers), and weak, no growth in jobs, its hard to see real estate shooting upward.
-Stocks choppy. Flat to down. The S&P could be flat for 20-25 years after the mid 90's.

The real variable is interest rates. We have 10-15% unemployment now with historically low interest rates. What happens when interest rates really go up? To 10-15-20% or much higher.

One day we're going to wake up, and interest rates will soar. Much like the shift in investment banking. One day you wake up and Lehman and Bear are gone (after being there for 80 years). It was a techonic shift in the world. It happened very quickly and it scared the sh** out of everybody. The same will happen with bonds.

Eventually the economy will bottom and equal what we're producing in terms or real goods and services. Its been papered over so much, that might be 10 or 15 years.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,085,650 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
The difference now vs the last 230 years, is in the last 10-15 years, we've had a severe breakdown in our system, the likes of which no one has seen in our lifetime.
So its different than the last 230 years because most of us have not seen something like this in our lifetime. Huh?

Not only have similar events occurred in US history, but worse ones occurred.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:54 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
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Every year 350 billions +/- dollars worth of tribute hit American shores, millions of sweat shop (and not only) workers work for America at any given second, poor countries raise, train & sent their best muscles and brains to America, minerals, oil are being extracted for America, forest is cut, food is grown for America. It sounds like something that rare colonial power could achieve. US government doesn't maintain colonial administration (it maintains swarms of colonial supervisors), it has mere 700 military bases abroad, yet USA manage to live off the rest of the world. How? Dollar as a reserve currency. IMF helps too. Policing the world on the behalf of international oligarchy. They use "neo colonial" to describe such an arrangement.
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:16 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
Reputation: 7457
Peak oil, peak gas, peak uranium, peak copper, peak soil, peak fish, peak everything, dozens of industrially important compounds will become too rare to be industrially important in very near future. We live in extremely "exciting" times human race has never faced yet. Convergence of energy, resource, environment, social, economic, food&water problems. At no time America (or any other country, entire human race) had it worse. Great depression? It was just a sneeze. What really disastrous happened during great depression? Nothing, no crisisis except pure economics (or absurdity) of capitalism. In 1930s there was plenty of domestic energy (and no doubt that it will last forever), fertile fields, factories built, mineral resources abundant, workers are trained, population is 30% of the present one. Yet, Great depression nevertheless, 25% jobless, hunger and suffering, because of absurdity of the system. Compared to what we face now Great Depression is not even a sneeze.
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