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Old 02-21-2010, 08:12 PM
 
2,036 posts, read 4,228,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They are a reflection of the lack of an appropriately challenging education. The reasons why that happened are explained in The Atlantic article, linked earlier.


I'm going to have to disagree here. Those who would normally be considered the ones who would be likely to go hungry are the ones who have made slight gains over the years. The precipitous drops in achievement have occurred in the highest and mid quintiles. Hunger isn't the problem. The deliberate lack of access to an appropriately challenging education is.


That's a disaster in and of itself, but you can't ignore the nearly 50 years in which the vast majority of several generations of students have been intentionally dumbed down to realize the social-engineering goal of forced egalitarianism - or, in other words, forced equal outcomes. Think about it - in order to be able to achieve equal outcomes, the target outcome level would have to be below average, the level at which most students would be able to achieve.
Well we see eye to eye with regard to education being an exercise in social engineering, but I stop short of saying its forced egalitarianism. I think we are a great country in spite of our government and education system. (Ask me about my opinions regarding the IB program in high schools!)

The average mecahnic or sandwich shop owner doesn't need to go to an Ivy League college. Those who can go to a top tier university are being challenged at an appropriate level when you take into consideration that a lot of tasks that were done 50 years ago are now automated throug the use of computers.

I don't know. I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I disagre with the one-dimensional view that kids are getting dumber due to some master plan. There are just too many variables involved and intelligence doesn't necessarily mean production, invention....and on and on.

Basically, I throw a good amount of salt over my shoulder and agree to agree with you though. Very insightful commentary on your part.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:29 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,592,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Freedom from want is the only way to break the materialistic cycle that threatens to destroy the middle class. Until we are willing to do without the garbage that has been brainwashed into us as "necessary" for survival such as weekly trips to McDonalds, cable television, new cars, expensive houses, etc., the American Middle Class will never crawl out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

I live very humbly but happily on about $18k - $20k per year. I eat well, my house is paid for. I do not watch television and I do not go to movies. My car is 16 years old. I have not purchased a NEW piece of clothing (other than underwear in many, many years.) I can buy *anything* that I want, yet, there is nothing I want to buy.

When I tell this to people they shake their heads and say.... "I could never live like that". Fine. Let your wants eat you alive. Until you are willing to walk away from the desire for THINGS, you will always be a slave to someone who provides those things to you.

Reading Buddhism really helped me understand that the material things of this world are nothing but a burden and that want is the killer of happiness.

20yrsinBranson
Truth has spoken.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:37 PM
 
2,318 posts, read 1,885,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Our public education systems have been in an intentional decline for almost 50 years. To understand the reasons why, and the consequences of the decline, read this article in The Atlantic:

"A college professor looks at the forgotten victims of our mediocre educational system--the potentially high achievers whose SAT scores have fallen, and who read less, understand less of what they read, and know less than the top students of a generation ago...

...While students in the bottom quartile have shown slow but steady improvement since the 1960s, average test scores have nonetheless gone down, primarily because of the performance of those in the top quartile. This "highest cohort of achievers," Rudman writes, has shown "the greatest declines across a variety of subjects as well as across age-level groups." Analysts have also found "a substantial drop among those children in the middle range of achievement," he continues, "but less loss and some modest gains at the lower levels." In other words, our brightest youngsters, those most likely to be headed for selective colleges, have suffered the most dramatic setbacks over the past two decades--a fact with grave implications for our ability to compete with other nations in the future."
The Other Crisis in American Education - 91.11

For the particularly relevant sections that explain how and why this happened, scroll down to The Incubus of the Sixties and The Shock of College-Level Demands subsections.

That article was written nearly 20 years ago and sadly, our schools have gotten even worse. Both the SAT and the ACT (college entrance exams) have recentered their scoring scales since then to adjust for persistently declining scores. More recent scores on those tests are artificially inflated.


Our schools have been dumbed down . They teach more political agendas and less acadmics .

Student learn fast to be PC or get bad grades, this in turn discourages them .

My grnddaughter is now in college but because she didn't agree with the new age crap her teachers kept her upset . She was on honor role until about the 10th grade when the indoctrination got worse .
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,867,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
I do think that what's killing is is the inability for the masses to see the opportunities and threats in a long term time frame. I'm not only talking about the low savings rate but also actions such as the insane pressure on publicly held companies to wring every last penny out of the system every quarter in the name of propping up stock prices for the company in the next week and a half. Yes, Wall Street will love it when a company cuts 20K positions, and the stock prices will spike for a short while, but no one talks about how it may not be a good idea over the long run to cut 75% of your research and development budget. Not every future category killer is going to be as cheap to develop as the post-it note.
Another issue that isn't brought up in schools. The short term, nearsightedness of the west (by our public companies). Vs the prudent, long term East (China, Japan). Who's going to win that game in 30 years?

-Instead of learning about "role models" in school (I want to be the next Andy Grove, I want to be the next Steve Jobs), they should be putting entrepreneurs (and public companies) in the proper context. But of course it's just abstract Intel invented the microchip, or Steve Jobs created Apple in his garage. It's easier to give kids that kind of hope than something messier that might make them have to dig a little bit more.

Yet another reason why 10 million kids are watching American Idol. They aren't presented with role models that are understandable in school. I don't think schools want understandable role models. Easier to have Adam Lambert as your role model than something more complicated.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,162,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I wondered that years ago and started reading and questioning. Came to pretty much the conclusion in the article. We are slaves to the system.

You always seem to work harder to just keep up. And to keep up you have to keep buying bigger and grander "stuff".
I havent even been keeping up with the CPI increases. Forget about buying bigger and better stuff......
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,162,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
FIRST, most people are greedy and stupid and live way beyond their means.
My parents drove their cars into the ground, RARELY ate out, clipped coupons and had a nice vegetable garden. Today I see people making 30k a year driving newer cars, rarely cooking and buying a coach purse for $300 once they got enough room on the credit card to charge it. Take a look at the growth in credit card debt and TAKE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Have you tried to live in most places in this country on 30k? I do get what you are saying about unneccessary purchases, but on the other hand, is it neccessary for so many of us to have below living wage jobs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
SECOND, we live in a society that exalts a kid that can score 2 touchdowns or dunk a basketball and the kid that excels at academics is a nerd and sits near the bottom of the social totem pole. We revile a CEO that makes a 5million dollar bonus and cheer for a baseball player that makes $20million dollars a year.
The difference between the CEO and the baseball player is that the baseball player is an employee, the CEO is getting wealthy off other peoples backs. In fact, the baseball player is in the exact same boat we are, just on a larger scale. The owner of the team is scraping money off of every single millionaire athlete on his team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
(There is a reason we have so many immigrants from countries like China working high-paying technical jobs here in the states. We don't develop enough talent here on our own soil.)
Capitalism does not reward hard work or intellegence. It never has. It rewards those who figure out how to extract resources the best.
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Old 02-27-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,503 posts, read 4,531,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Have you tried to live in most places in this country on 30k? I do get what you are saying about unneccessary purchases, but on the other hand, is it neccessary for so many of us to have below living wage jobs?




The difference between the CEO and the baseball player is that the baseball player is an employee, the CEO is getting wealthy off other peoples backs. In fact, the baseball player is in the exact same boat we are, just on a larger scale. The owner of the team is scraping money off of every single millionaire athlete on his team.



Capitalism does not reward hard work or intellegence. It never has. It rewards those who figure out how to extract resources the best.
It takes hard work and intelligence to extract resources the best.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,162,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
It takes hard work and intelligence to extract resources the best.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
No it doesnt. It takes little more then being born into a position of capital ownership.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:26 AM
 
77,715 posts, read 59,844,990 times
Reputation: 49102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Have you tried to live in most places in this country on 30k? I do get what you are saying about unneccessary purchases, but on the other hand, is it neccessary for so many of us to have below living wage jobs?




The difference between the CEO and the baseball player is that the baseball player is an employee, the CEO is getting wealthy off other peoples backs. In fact, the baseball player is in the exact same boat we are, just on a larger scale. The owner of the team is scraping money off of every single millionaire athlete on his team.



Capitalism does not reward hard work or intellegence. It never has. It rewards those who figure out how to extract resources the best.
I agree with your first point.
Your second comment is flat out wrong. The CEO is also an employee, they get fired all the time and are NOT the owners. Specifically, look at Ford's CEO and come back and tell me how he hasn't done anything.
Your third comment is only partially correct. The richest people I know in real life started out with very little.

The CEO isn't an employee? And you are equating him to the owner? Sorry...you stopped making sense there and are just ranting gibberish.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:40 AM
 
77,715 posts, read 59,844,990 times
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Directed to comments about our education system by some here...a real life insight....

Went to a math contest yesterday...really big one. 13 of the top 15 were either Indian\Pak\Chinese etc. The other 2 were white kids. Contestants in general were about 1/2 far east and 1/2 white...I saw 1-2 black kids there out of about a thousand kids.

Soccer tournament in the same building...almost all white kids with a variety of others filling out the group.

Youth basketball tournament at my gym, 1/2 white 1/2 black.

There are several factors for this...immigration policies (we let in skilled, educated folks from the far east), culture etc. I do not attribute this to racial ability, just pointing out where the kids interests are being directed by their parents, peers, media etc.

This is indicative of our sports minded anti-intellectual culture, which forces us to import educated people from other countries. I don't blame our education system because the kids of these people are kicking butt in it, it's just more indicative of where we are putting our emphasis with regards to our kids.

Our heroes are sports stars with marginal literacy who behave like jerks. We idolize highschool athletes and hope they can perform at a 5th grade level on the ACT so they can play for our college. Ugh.

Sorry, stay stupid...then complain there ain't no jobs fer yor to work that pays goodly. Blame everyone else too.
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