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Old 02-26-2010, 03:44 PM
 
21 posts, read 64,978 times
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Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Medicine is still male dominated, as far as MDs.
I didn't mean to post the "explain medicine" sentence! I understand that medicine is still male dominated. It won't be forever though! I ran into many more "pre-med" girls than "pre-med" guys in college. Most of the guys I knew were interested in business or engineering. I get what your sister is saying. I had no idea that accounting is one of these professions!
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,395,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binniebaby View Post
I didn't mean to post the "explain medicine" sentence! I understand that medicine is still male dominated. It won't be forever though! I ran into many more "pre-med" girls than "pre-med" guys in college. Most of the guys I knew were interested in business or engineering. I get what your sister is saying. I had no idea that accounting is one of these professions!

That it is my friend. Go in to any accounting class above gen business req level, primarily outside of general accounting up to the intermediate level, you will find it is at least 85% female (which wasnt always the case, accounting was a very male dominated field well into the 80's). Upon seeing that, you can automatically tell that profession is rarely going to be well compensated, and is going to be disrespected and discounted.

See, I never realized this, because my degree is actually in Finance, which is about 75% male. However, finance is a poorly employable degree if it doesnt come from an Ivy League school, and isnt in New York, and in most areas of the country, people with finance degrees largely end up in accounting any how.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:55 PM
 
21 posts, read 64,978 times
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Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
If I read the situation you are dealing with, you've finished a degree that you pretty much understand to have no clear career path (English), with a set ancillary skills that you no longer want to pursue (premed).

This really NOT THAT UNCOMMON. The way to get yourself "back on the road to a real life" is PROBABLY NOT to start throwing darts at careers that rank high on the list of "lucrative and clear path for entry".

I strongly recommend that you don't just take the generalized "personality tests" but do some more specific investigation. One EXCELLENT resource that make sense is the APTITUDE testing offered by Johnson O'Connor Foundation. It is far more in-depth than anything else: Aptitude testing for college students

I would further recommend that you DO SOMETHING as quickly as possible to get used to earning money and showing up at an office. If that involves getting a job at some temp agency or retailer DO IT as in my experience nothing helps to sharpen your focus as much as hating a job...

The interwebs are FILLED WITH RESOURCES and the Society of Actuaries has some great stuff:
Be An Actuary - Newsroom - The Future Actuary - September 2000

I would caution that among the successful actuaries I've known there seems to a pretty large number that have either a stellar background in 'theoretical mathematics' or a really businessy law /MBA type focus. Granted I only know about half a dozen actuaries (and I work in field with quite few of them...) but I'd be really cautious about "missing" whatever it is that gets some folks into those fields vs something like English...
I'll check out that aptitude test tonight. I just took another personality test and now I'm ENFJ-not ISTJ. (What?)

Funny you mention temping! That's what I've been up to.

My engineer bf gave me the same warning about actuarial science. The only successful (passed all the exams) actuary he knows had a doctorate in math from an Ivy.

Are there any other "mathy/hard (not life) sciencey" fields that don't require you to be a rocket scientist out there?
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,395,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binniebaby View Post
Are there any other "mathy/hard (not life) sciencey" fields that don't require you to be a rocket scientist out there?
There are about 5000 different types of engineers. My sister says the only one to stay away from is Environmental Engineering, and ironically, this is the field most women engineers go towards. Mechanical, Electrical, Civil, they are all pretty employable in a variety of different facets, and at pretty good pay.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:03 PM
 
28,461 posts, read 76,051,458 times
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The Johnson O'Connor thing is not one test. It is at least a whole day of pretty unique tests that test, not just with paper and pencil, asses an very wide range of aptitudes. Not cheap but gives you insights you would probably never get otherwise...

You might surprise yourself and find that a career in the sciences is something you are suited to, but the path is not as smooth as some assume. There is a shortage of both industry oriented scientists and those that work in academic or governmental settings. Pay ranges are not the only thing you need to consider, because even though there are shortages it is not a situation where you just open a newspaper or go to monster and find something that is an easy "drop in". You need a long range plan and an understanding of how one gets from a PhD program to a research or regulatory type role.

Real life example: My wife's sister is married to a great guy. His dad was a surgeon. His eldest sister is a PhD Pharmacologist at University of Michigan, and her husband has a similar career. They both went right from undergrad degrees that were initially geared toward "premed" but were in Chemistry (at Marquette) & Biochemistry(University of Rochester) respectively into Pharm PhD programs. She at University of Wisconsin, he at Purdue. They met at as post docs at Michigan and she attained tenure with the University while he decided after his post doc to work for one of the firms that do research.
Mind you these are people that I see maybe every couple of Christmasses, so I don't know if I got every detail right, but the point is to illustrate the range of moves / situations that are pretty common...

If you want to do something like that you would be wise to prepare for GREs, research the prerequisites of the various schools/ programs you might like to pursue, and inquire of the Universities if your lack of undergraduate research experience would exclude from consideration OR if you could wiggle in based on other talents / do something to supplant the undergrad omission. I am of course assuming that your undergrad profs would be able to write recommendations...

You could also probably earn a graduate degree in something like Chemical Engineering, but again the preparatory work in chemical thermodynamics /computer simulations and stuff that those headed for a graduate program (as opposed to the internships that those looking for an industry job) would be something you might need to knock out before admission to a program.

If you have absolutely exceptional transcripts and GREs there is some chance you could get a stipend to do the prereqs, but more likley you'd need to pay for those classes.

Once you qualify for a slot at a school with a large research budget you would probably receive some stipend. As your initial salary might be roughly equal to minimum wage, there would be no cost for the education itself and the pay for both academic/government and industry PhD in the physicals sciences is generally in /close to the six figures upon completion, which might take 4-6 years... Some schools offer an alternate path, instead of an MS/PhD where you would PAY to earn an Masters in Engineering, this might be another avenue to consider, but is generally recommended for those with really clear career goals --

http://www.princeton.edu/che/grad/Grad_Handbook.pdf

Biotech and Pharmaceutical Companies in the State of Michigan

PayScale - Doctorate (PhD), Pharmacology Degree Salary, Average Salaries

UIC Graduate Employees Vote to Authorize Strike | Fight Back! – News and Views from the People's Struggle
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:54 PM
 
21 posts, read 64,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
There are about 5000 different types of engineers. My sister says the only one to stay away from is Environmental Engineering, and ironically, this is the field most women engineers go towards. Mechanical, Electrical, Civil, they are all pretty employable in a variety of different facets, and at pretty good pay.
Didn't know this... Don't a large number of women engineers go into Civil Engineering too? All of the women I know who majored in engineering were "Civies" in college.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:59 PM
 
21 posts, read 64,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The Johnson O'Connor thing is not one test. It is at least a whole day of pretty unique tests that test, not just with paper and pencil, asses an very wide range of aptitudes. Not cheap but gives you insights you would probably never get otherwise...
No, it's not cheap! It does sound like a worthwhile investment though.

How'd you find out about this test?
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:22 PM
 
21 posts, read 64,978 times
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Wow!

From Oboe to News Desk
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:43 PM
 
162 posts, read 393,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post

You could also probably earn a graduate degree in something like Chemical Engineering, but again the preparatory work in chemical thermodynamics /computer simulations and stuff that those headed for a graduate program (as opposed to the internships that those looking for an industry job) would be something you might need to knock out before admission to a program.

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I sincerely doubt it. As a pre-med she will have the basic chemistry, orgo, physics, and general education credits transfer over. However there's a lot she would probably have to take in undergrad with the pre-reqs being multivariable calc, linear algebra, partial and differential equations, complex analysis, physical chemistry, programming classes, and anywhere from 5-10 Chem E specific courses. It's essentially getting a second bachelors. At minimum I would imagine this would take 3 years.



To the OP and some of the people who responded in this thread.: Also, don't get it stuck in your head that engineering is a quick path to riches and a stable line of work. Far from it, unless you're already established in the industry. If you do decide to go that route, make sure you go to a school with a strong recruitment program. Otherwise the market for entry and junior level engineers is dead. This isn't 2007 when we were all pulling in nice 50-60k salaries.


-A laid off Chemical Engineer who isn't alone in his situation.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:46 PM
 
28,461 posts, read 76,051,458 times
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I took the johnson occonnor battery of aptitude tests about twenty years ago. Very helpful.
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