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Old 03-02-2010, 10:09 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 4,370,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
It is the profession. Why dont you check out a few CPA boards. CPAs generally make in the mid 50's. That is an outright joke. Maybe you should stop defending your ass biting profession, and take a look at things objectively.



CPA is quite possibly the most worthless, least cost effective certification known to man. Not only does it now require basically a masters degree to even sit for it (in all but 4 states now), but it also posseses one of the most rigorous CPE requirements as well.



Who claimed this? You have to be of Ivy League stock to make money in the business field (assuming you dont own your own business). A large majority of accountants are making 50k or less, including the CPAs.

Average CPA Salary, CPAs Salaries and Annual Salary Guide

I would say that this is probably close. A CPA with senior level experience, who is NOT a manager of some sort can look forward to capping out around 75k at a Big 4 (which largely recruits the best students from top universities). Most CPAs are going to filter in to corporate accounting for a small or medium company, and can look forward to a great salary around 45-50k after 6 years of work, and making that will probably require a person to live in NYC or other high cost of living city (that is primarily where Ive seen most staff level jobs paying more then 50k).

If you take in to account that I live in a place with no corporate jobs, little demand for accountants, and I dont have a CPA, Ive actually been extremely successful. My salary is approaching the lower end of the average senior level CPA. Unfortunatley, that isnt good enough for me. I dont aspire to make 50k after 20 years on the job.




You obviously dont know many CPAs or you only know a few in a very narrow demographic. Most senior level CPAs are making more then 40k, but not much more. CPAs below senior level frequently make less then 40k. Thats EXACTLY what a person should expect after completing a Masters Degree.....40k. Let me just jump right on that.



Cisco certification is more valuable then a CPA.

Highest Paying Certifications - List of the Highest Paying Certifications

Three seperate CISCO certifications come with average salaries over 80k.

An Indeed search turns up about 6,000 Cisco Certified jobs, every one of them paying over 50k. Then again thats not so bad considering there are less then 20k people in the world with many of the Cisco certifications.

So, what exactly do you need to sit for the Cisco tests? Absolutely nothing (except passing a prerequisite test). Unlike the CPA which requires a masters degree in almost every state, and work experience and/or a current CPA to vouch for you in many others




If idiots like you keep getting CPA's, eventually there will be so many of you that nobody is going to pay for you to take any exams or keep up the CPE. Congrats on that. Id rather get a certifcation that millions of people cant get, and doesnt require me to have a masters degree to sit for it.
Wow, that's a long post and I don't have time to respond to each detail. I will say that you're wrong and quoting job boards and website may give you a sense of affirmation but it's hardly confirmation of your opinions. You have a chip on your shoulder, I get that. However, it makes your sweeping statements even less relevant.

I'm a CPA, so as a result, I know several CPAs in a variety of positions and locations, so I'm speaking from first hand knowledge. If you're a CPA (not a bookkeeper or accountant) and you're making under $40k, you need to find a new job because you suck at the one you have. Also, there is no glass ceiling at $50k or $75k as you seem to imply. Those numbers can easily be reached within a few years of graduation as evidenced by other posters on this thread. You're probably the first person I've come across who thinks it's better to have a certification with zero entry barriers as opposed to one that's difficult to obtain.

I'm not sure why you're resorting to calling me an idiot, but go ahead if it makes you feel better. Good luck on your new career.

Last edited by truckingbronco; 03-02-2010 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,392,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Wow, that's a long post and I don't have time to respond to each detail. I will say that you're wrong and quoting job boards and website may give you a sense of affirmation but it's hardly confirmation of your opinions. You have a chip on your shoulder, I get that. However, it makes your sweeping statements even less relevant.
I see, so statistically analyzing a good chunk of the advertised positions across the country has no value in confirming my FACTS. That makes complete sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
I'm a CPA, so as a result, I know several CPAs in a variety of positions and locations, so I'm speaking from first hand knowledge. If you're a CPA (not a bookkeeper or accountant) and you're making under $40k, you need to find a new job because you suck at the one you have.
If you are a CPA, you will likely be making from the high 40's to the mid 50's, regardless of your skill level. When compared to other masters degree level programs, this is a joke. When compared to many other career defining certifications, this is also a joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Also, there is no glass ceiling at $50k or $75k as you seem to imply. Those numbers can easily be reached within a few years of graduation as evidenced by other posters on this thread.
What other posters? One poster said his wife graduated with a Macc, and managed 50k at a Big 4. This is equivalent to a finance grad getting a job at a top Wall Street investment bank. Do you think they would be happy with a 50k salary? With a Masters Degree, a CPA AND experience at a Big 4 (the combination which will never be put together for more then 10% of all accounting grads), she was able to slide in to an above market position in a locality that seems to be more lucrative overall for the accounting position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
You're probably the first person I've come across who thinks it's better to have a certification with zero entry barriers as opposed to one that's difficult to obtain.
Most levels of CISCO certification are FAR more difficult to pass then the 4 sections of the CPA, and are much more rare to have, especially these days. The biggest barrier to passing the CPA is not that its hard, its the rediculous requirements. This is nothing more then a ploy to keep the certification elitist, since many people that do not meet the educational requirements, but have significant experience, could likely pass, as well as a handful of studious determined individuals who gained the knowledge through self study. I would be willing to bet the failure rates attached to the CPA are almost exclusively due to the huge numbers of fresh masters degree students sitting for it, with minimal to no actual experience. My guess is that youd probably find a higher percent of people who could pass the CPA at the staff level with about 5-10 years experience, then you could in every masters degree program in this country. Until the CPA Boards stop overvaluing accounting education and downplaying experience, they will continue to have high failure rates, then again, maybe thats what they want.

Bottom line is, the CPA disallows many people who could likely pass it from even taking it. Many IT certifications allow everyone to take a crack, and the people who know it, get the certs. I have no desire to pay for a Masters Degree to have a "shot" at making in the high 50's after 6 years of experience. Thats just nuts. In 10 years with most engineering degrees, salaries balloon right near 100k a year. Accounting? Not so much. I dont even think the CFO of my company makes that much, and the office is full of people who have been doing it a whole lot longer then I have, and arent making much more then me.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:44 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 4,370,757 times
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I see, so statistically analyzing a good chunk of the advertised positions across the country has no value in confirming my FACTS. That makes complete sense.

Please, you didn't analyze anything. You searched the internet to validate your opinion. I could go to any job site and search "work at home" "100k" and come back with endless results.

If you are a CPA, you will likely be making from the high 40's to the mid 50's, regardless of your skill level. When compared to other masters degree level programs, this is a joke. When compared to many other career defining certifications, this is also a joke.

Once again, I know of no one making this little, but apparently you seem to think it's the rule.


What other posters? One poster said his wife graduated with a Macc, and managed 50k at a Big 4. This is equivalent to a finance grad getting a job at a top Wall Street investment bank. Do you think they would be happy with a 50k salary? With a Masters Degree, a CPA AND experience at a Big 4 (the combination which will never be put together for more then 10% of all accounting grads), she was able to slide in to an above market position in a locality that seems to be more lucrative overall for the accounting position.

That poster said she started at $50k and is over $70k after 3.5 years. Do you not think this is a good salary? Of course not everyone will make this much, but it's a career field that opens many doors, it's up to you to walk through them.

Most levels of CISCO certification are FAR more difficult to pass then the 4 sections of the CPA, and are much more rare to have, especially these days. The biggest barrier to passing the CPA is not that its hard, its the rediculous requirements. This is nothing more then a ploy to keep the certification elitist, since many people that do not meet the educational requirements, but have significant experience, could likely pass, as well as a handful of studious determined individuals who gained the knowledge through self study. I would be willing to bet the failure rates attached to the CPA are almost exclusively due to the huge numbers of fresh masters degree students sitting for it, with minimal to no actual experience. My guess is that youd probably find a higher percent of people who could pass the CPA at the staff level with about 5-10 years experience, then you could in every masters degree program in this country. Until the CPA Boards stop overvaluing accounting education and downplaying experience, they will continue to have high failure rates, then again, maybe thats what they want.

The CPA is a difficult test, there are very few people that would dispute that. You seem to think that you know something that no one else does, yet you just come across bitter. The Cisco Cert may be difficult, I have no idea and it's beside the point.


Bottom line is, the CPA disallows many people who could likely pass it from even taking it. Many IT certifications allow everyone to take a crack, and the people who know it, get the certs. I have no desire to pay for a Masters Degree to have a "shot" at making in the high 50's after 6 years of experience. Thats just nuts. In 10 years with most engineering degrees, salaries balloon right near 100k a year. Accounting? Not so much. I dont even think the CFO of my company makes that much, and the office is full of people who have been doing it a whole lot longer then I have, and arent making much more then me.

There's a reoccuring theme in your posts that somehow engineering/IT being a good career is mutually exlusive of CPA being a good cert.

I really couldn't care less what you do with your life/career, the only issue I have is that you present your opinion as it's fact. Bottom line is that you washed out and the OP shouldn't expect to get rational advice from a failure.

Last edited by truckingbronco; 03-02-2010 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,392,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Please, you didn't analyze anything. You searched the internet to validate your opinion. I could go to any job site and search "work at home" "100k" and come back with endless results.
So now you are comparing legit accounting job offer postings with rediculous scams. That makes sense. Tell me ass wipe, what exactly, in your mind, would be legit proof of what Im saying? Ive already posted Indeed.com search results, USAjobs search results and Robert Half, which is one of the top national accounting and finance placement firms, job postings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Once again, I know of no one making this little, but apparently you seem to think it's the rule.
The above sites all agree its the rule as well. Would you like me to go ahead and start posting craigslist ads? Local newspaper results? What exactly is it going to take to shut you up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
That poster said she started at $50k and is over $70k after 3.5 years. Do you not think this is a good salary? Of course not everyone will make this much, but it's a career field that opens many doors, it's up to you to walk through them.
She STARTED at 50k with a masters degree at a Big 4. This automatically already set her FAR apart from most other people who graduated with an accounting degree, or are in the accounting field. Less then 1/6 of all accounting grads get a job at the Big 4. Thats not even accounting 10's of thousands of Finance and other business grads who filtered in to the accounting profession because of no jobs in their fields.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
The CPA is a difficult test, there are very few people that would dispute that.
Two out of two CPAs I personally know said it was overrated, one of them saying it was outright easy. I think the failure rate and perpetuated "difficulty" rumor of the test is largely attributable to preparedness of the average test taker. It might have something to do with the exclusion of many people with years and even decades of experience in the field, in favor of some kid with a masters degree and an accounting internship.

Even assuming it is difficult, the value of it is directly in proportion to the number of people that have it. Enough people have managed to pass this test that CPA is now a certification businesses are searching for to apply to their staff accountants and even AP clerks. In 6 years, when those 203,000 people in accounting programs graduate, lets say 25,000 of them get masters degrees and about 13,000 of them get CPAs. How much cheaper do you think the CPA is going to be? Do you think 13,000 Senior Level jobs are going to open up? No, they arent. Computers and outsourcing are limiting accounting staffs as it is. The only thing that will happen is that businesses will suddenly find themselves able to fill bottom feeder jobs previously held by high school grads, with masters degree holding CPAs. The field will resemble social work, or teaching, where a Masters Degree is pretty much a requirement just to get an entry level job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
You seem to think that you know something that no one else does, yet you just come across bitter. The Cisco Cert may be difficult, I have no idea and it's beside the point.
1. I am bitter. I wasted not only 4 years of school, but 6 years of post school in a non lucrative field. If I would have stuck to Aerospace Engineering, I would have likely been in a cushy government job making atleast 85k a year.

2. You directly judged the Cisco Certs in a previous post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
There's a reoccuring theme in your posts that somehow engineering/IT being a good career is mutually exlusive of CPA being a good cert.
What the hell are you talking about? What you are literally saying here is that Im claiming that Engineering is good, and that must make a CPA bad, since both cannot be good. Thats not remotely what Im claiming. I am claiming that a CPA is worth less then the hassle of getting it, because you can spend equivalent time doing something else that would be more lucrative at the same ending point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
I really couldn't care less what you do with your life/career, the only issue I have is that you present your opinion as it's fact.
Gee, I wonder who presents a better case, me with loads of third party supporting literature, or you, a pissed off vindictive crybaby upset that someone bashed their profession, and uses empirical "evidence" including such winners as "I dont know anyone making that" to debunk such 3rd party literature.

Why dont you try to build an argument that doesnt involve empirical evidence? Why dont you try to find one ounce of evidence that supports your claims?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Bottom line is that you washed out and the OP shouldn't expect to get rational advice from a failure.
Bottom line is I washed out? You dont even know me, so dont pretend to.

By the way, speaking of failures, Im guessing you work for someone else? Does that high salary make you a success? Or does it just make you a lucky **** with *** stains around your mouth? I pray you never feel the affects of your flooded profession. I dont think you can handle the reality that your "skill" has been cheapened to the point of liberal arts wages in 85% of the country.
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:01 PM
 
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Lots of insults and little substance.

To the OP, please base your decision on a variety of opinions, good and bad, and not just one poster on a message board who scours the internet to validate their opinion.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:43 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 4,370,757 times
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EDIT:

Lots of insults and little substance, Randomdude. I was mocking your habit of spouting your opinion as fact and then searching the internet for support when I referenced work-at-home jobs and the caeers being mutually exclusive...I wasn't making a comparison. You're trying to tell me that what I see in my career and interactions with others in the same field is not true because careerbuilder says otherwise. It's ridiculous. I have no issue with you posting your opinion/experience that differs from mine. It's how you claim it's fact, and any other experience is false because you were able to Google support. Anyone can find support for any point of view on the internet, true or not. I've in no way stated that getting a CPA is for everybody, but you've basically said that it's for nobody.

Your original post, and several thereafter (remember how many times you referred to your sister and your own experience and not to mention the two CPAs you know?) were based on empirical evidence and personal experience, so please don't be hypocritical. Littering your posts with personal insults does nothing to prove your point and in no way hurts my feelings, it only makes you sound like a child. At this point, I'm done with this thread. I read a few of your other posts and it seems that forum battles are your thing, but I've already wasted too much time.

Good luck with your IT career, it sounds like it's time you move on and see if the grass is greener.

To the OP, please base your decision on a variety of opinions, good and bad, and not just one poster on a message board who scours the internet to validate their opinion.

Last edited by truckingbronco; 03-02-2010 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,392,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
EDIT:

Anyone can find support for any point of view on the internet, true or not. I've in no way stated that getting a CPA is for everybody, but you've basically said that it's for nobody.
I challenged you to find ANY evidence that shows that CPAs average over 60k. Stop sitting here and simply claiming that it "exists". Go find it. Find me ANYTHING. I posted several job boards and a CPA website. Its not like I had to dig.

By the way, I didnt say its for "nobody". The only people it should be for are people directly involved in filing federal or state financial paperwork, or people who are on a clear track to management. Cubicle jockies do not need a CPA whatsoever. Instead, what has happened is that EVERYBODY is getting one, and its becoming completely cheapened to the point that there are Staff Accountant and AP clerk jobs requiring CPAs. Most of the people in low level CPA jobs right now are NEVER going to get in to high paying management jobs. There are just too many of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Your original post, and several thereafter (remember how many times you referred to your sister and your own experience and not to mention the two CPAs you know?) were based on empirical evidence and personal experience, so please don't be hypocritical.
The engineer thing isnt based on empirical evidence. Not on this board, but on other CPA posts, Ive done similiar comparisons using many links from engineering jobs. Go ahead, Indeed.com search Electrical Engineer, and Accountant. Hell, indeed.com search CPA and Electrical Engineer.

You will see there is similiar demand for both, and similiar wages, except, a CPA requires a Masters degree and a high failure rate certification.

However, you probably wont find winners like this amongst the Electrical Engineer offerings.

http://65.60.189.130/efs/IndeedActJo...=1729&ClientID=

https://jobs.utah.gov/jsp/utahjobs/s...oid=2200990985

Community Career Center (http://www.nonprofitjobs.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.jdetail&jid=29177 - broken link)

Kingsport Times News - Meet your job match

CPA - Albuquerque, New Mexico | Accounting Principals (http://www.accountingprincipals.com/Jobs/cpa/13655863/ - broken link)

STAFF ACCOUNTANT/CPA CANDIDATE -TO $40K YEARLY Job in Fresno 93711, California US (http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=86618827&from=indeed - broken link)

Sr. Accountant (CPA or Series 27) Jobs in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania (http://accounting-finance.thingamajob.com/jobs/Pennsylvania/Sr--Accountant--CPA-or-Series-27-/2040659?vendor_id=300&skin=StephenJames - broken link)


CPA - Accounting Manager from AppleOne Corporate | Data Frenzy This one is in Virginia Beach, VA, in my home MSA. 39-44k for a CPA accounting manager. Niiiiice.

Vaco San Diego | Corporate Accountant - Big 4 CPA with 2 - 4 years of Experience (http://www.vaco.com//san-diego/jobs/corporate-accountant-big-4-cpa-with-2-4-years-of-experience-3 - broken link)


Hawaii Job Search

#134 Tax Senior, Arlington, with public accounting, CPA at Confidential / ResumeBook360

Certified Public Accountant (CPA) for Innovative Public Accounting Firm job in Williamsville, NY: Accounting/Finance and Professional Services careers - Yahoo HotJobs (http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JELFXKTSK80;_ylc=X3oDMTEwNGw1MDVvBF9TAzM5NjUxMDMzN QRjYXQDRklOBHBjb2RlAzUwNTg0?source=partner&scode=5 0584 - broken link)


This goes on and on. Somebody who took the time to get a Masters Degree, and managed to be one of the 49% who pass the CPA testing, is going to end up filtering into a job like these. Its supply and demand. Everybody WANTS to get picked up by a BIG 4, and get a job at some nice firm a few years after, but the reality, about 10-15% manage that. The rest end up toiling away at some crap eating job they are likely overqualified for, underpaid for, or both.



Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
Littering your posts with personal insults does nothing to prove your point and in no way hurts my feelings, it only makes you sound like a child.
I have no problem returning personal insults with personal insults. Im not above that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truckingbronco View Post
To the OP, please base your decision on a variety of opinions, good and bad, and not just one poster on a message board who scours the internet to validate their opinion.
Actually, this is my facts versus your opinion.
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
1,911 posts, read 4,220,648 times
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If you are just the average accountant working an entry level or maybe senior associate level job, the pay isn't fantastic. No surprise there. There are higher level accounting jobs that pay much more. Think more towards controller/director of external reporting/director of taxation.
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:06 AM
 
162 posts, read 393,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Bottom line is, the CPA disallows many people who could likely pass it from even taking it. Many IT certifications allow everyone to take a crack, and the people who know it, get the certs. I have no desire to pay for a Masters Degree to have a "shot" at making in the high 50's after 6 years of experience. Thats just nuts. In 10 years with most engineering degrees, salaries balloon right near 100k a year. Accounting? Not so much. I dont even think the CFO of my company makes that much, and the office is full of people who have been doing it a whole lot longer then I have, and arent making much more then me.

Again, you're wrong. Many people who studied engineering move onto different things (sales, management, completely different career) because of the general job instability and mediocre salary considering its difficulty. Some do make 100k. Most do not. You're thinking management. For every manager there is at least 5 engineers. Do the math. Engineering has salary structures that top out real quickly


I have a friend who just graduated with a masters in EE from a top school. After 6 months of job hunting in this economy, guess what position she was finally offered? 47k. Entry and junior job market is rough.


This doesn't even begin to take into account the large gap in general difficulty it takes to obtain engineering degrees compared to accounting
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,392,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiken View Post
If you are just the average accountant working an entry level or maybe senior associate level job, the pay isn't fantastic. No surprise there. There are higher level accounting jobs that pay much more. Think more towards controller/director of external reporting/director of taxation.

How many controller/director jobs are available?

No doubt these pay well, I get that. The problem is that there are far more CPAs then the number of those jobs available. In fact, there are so many CPAs that they are requiring CPAs for the jobs I posted above (and Ive actually seen a couple AP clerk type jobs requiring a CPA here and there even), which can no doubt be completed by someone with less education and certification. Hell, ten-fifteen years ago, the only people with CPAs were the highest level accountants, partners in tax firms, and financial officers. What has changed so much that now you need CPAs to do staff accountant work?

Thing is, why should you settle for someone with less education and certification, when you can get some desperate sole with a masters degree and a CPA to work the job for the same money.

Thats my complete argument. Say you are average Joe, like most of us (or about 85% of accounting grads). What is more lucrative, the average Joe CPA/Accounting job, or the average Joe math/science based field?
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