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I don’t think they’re going to put up with the greedy top 1% to 5%’s behavior much longer.
Bet me they won't. Their attention spans just aren't long enough for the required "overthrow" (if you will) of the status quo. As long as they have their Ipods, Wii game systems, and access to YouTube, they will be kept at bay. They'll do what all of us are doing: whine about it on message forums, maybe occassionally stand on a street corner and wave a picket sign, but that's about as far as it will go.
The way I see it....if the much heralded "revolution" really ever had a shot of happening, it would've started by now. But we as a society are simply too apathetic and preoccupied with gender/ethnicity/sexual orientations and the Red State/Blue State schism to give a damn and to set all of that aside and stand united under a common cause: taking back an out of control banking system-and by extension-government that both continue to rake us over the coals.
We all know that you are PO'd about the baliouts. But if it shored up your sagging 401(k), you're going to quickly look the other way and whistle with your hands in your pocket.
Remember. No one bites the hand that feeds them and the dollar will trump principle every time. And twice on Sundays.
Why don't go shop for groceries and then come back and then tell me that with a straight face?
Because even that may not tell the whole story.
That box of Cheerios may cost the same as it did two years ago ("See! What inflation?")
What that typical bull[sh*t] cheerleading rhetoric usually conveniently ignores is that while the BOX may be the same price, the WEIGHT of it is anywhere from 5 to 25% LESS.
Yet another thread about interest rates that ignores the distinction between real and nominal rates.
What is the difference between a rate of 1.5% with a 0% rate of inflation or 5% with a 3.5% rate of inflation? Nothing.
------bzzzzzzzzzzz------- Wrong answer. 1.5% with 0% rate of inflation is better. You're only comparing the net spread between return and inflation. When taxes are figured in, the net spread with 1.5%-0% is better.
With a 25% tax rate, that 5% after-tax is only 3.75%, and after subtracting inflation, and you're looking at .25% real return. For 1.5%, the after tax is 1.125%, which is also your real return.
I get your underlying point, which is that people forget that savings accounts with interest rates of 6-8% came with inflation of ~5%, but you shouldn't forget that taxes ignore inflation.
Bet me they won't. Their attention spans just aren't long enough for the required "overthrow" (if you will) of the status quo. As long as they have their Ipods, Wii game systems, and access to YouTube, they will be kept at bay. They'll do what all of us are doing: whine about it on message forums, maybe occassionally stand on a street corner and wave a picket sign, but that's about as far as it will go.
The way I see it....if the much heralded "revolution" really ever had a shot of happening, it would've started by now. But we as a society are simply too apathetic and preoccupied with gender/ethnicity/sexual orientations and the Red State/Blue State schism to give a damn and to set all of that aside and stand united under a common cause: taking back an out of control banking system-and by extension-government that both continue to rake us over the coals.
We all know that you are PO'd about the baliouts. But if it shored up your sagging 401(k), you're going to quickly look the other way and whistle with your hands in your pocket.
Remember. No one bites the hand that feeds them and the dollar will trump principle every time. And twice on Sundays.
Wow! I thought I was reading my own post for a few minutes. Here's what I wrote at another website on the same topic:
Quote:
>>>>>Beyond a few such bleats of outrage, however, the huge payout was met, by and large, with a collective sigh of resignation. Because beneath America's populist veneer, on a more subtle strata of the national psyche, there remains a strong temptation to not really give a ****. The rich, after all, have always made way too much money; what's the difference if some fat cat in New York pockets $20 million instead of $10 million?
There's the American people's problem in a nutshell. I've said time and time again in response to posters who pipe "Americans will rise up and then look out", "No, they won't. They'll just roll over and die." Why? Because defeat has been bred into their genetic fabric over decades of being manipulated, lied to, drowned with false hopes and promises until they just don't give a damn anymore. The American people have had the fighting spirit literally whipped out of them. I've watched documentary after news report after documentary of thousands of homeless living in tent cities under the worst imaginable conditions right here in the USA---squalor so bad that it made Zimbabwe an inviting place to move to and, mind you, most of this footage was shot by amateurs using a cheap camcorder not subject to Big Media editing. They ranged from children to seniors and were the sweetest, kindest people you can imagine, greatly humbled by their fall from a middle class lifestyle; totally dumbfounded at how they could have ended up where they are, yet not one of them had anything bad or vindictive to say about the rich or our leaders. This is hardly the stuff of French Revolution-style uprisings. So I'm with Mr. Taibbi on this one. Don't hold your breath waiting for the American people to rise up and say I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore because it ain't gonna happen. They WILL take more---as much as the elite can dish out to them---and beyond.
Actually there can be quite a lot of difference. The gross inflation rate encompasses a wide range of items, many of which may or may not be applicable to a specific individual. For example, housing (obviously deflating at the moment, but the example is germane) comprises something around 30%ish of the CPI. An individual with paid for housing is immune to inflation's impact on that item (excepting of course property taxes).
This is true of the more immediate effects of shifts in consumer prices, but more long term there is no avoiding the effects of inflation. Inflation is the devaluation of the currency an increase in consumer prices is just an effect on this devaluation.
------bzzzzzzzzzzz------- Wrong answer. 1.5% with 0% rate of inflation is better. You're only comparing the net spread between return and inflation. When taxes are figured in, the net spread with 1.5%-0% is better.
Well isn't this silly.... Yes, I'm comparing the net spread between the rates, that is to say I'm talking about real interest rates. I never mentioned taxes, so what in the world am I wrong about?
Well, it's been almost 9 months since this thread was started and, so far, the OP was right. I didn't think the rates could get any lower. Pretty soon the banks will charge us to put money into a CD or savings account. After all, they're doing us a big favor by allowing us to do business with them.
I agree with this, but the minions of the world are at a breaking point. Generation ‘X’ has been financially screwed/manipulated over a long period of time. However, Generation ‘Y’ (20 something) has been financially screwed/manipulated over a very short period of time; I don’t think they’re going to put up with the greedy top 1% to 5%’s behavior much longer.
IMO the old way of banking (more dependence on customer deposits) is going to have to be re-incorporated back into the financial system. 401k’s may be good for people in the 30%+ tax bracket, but people below that need a no-nonsense way of saving/building wealth.
Top 1% to 5%'s behavior? You mean anybody making more than 87K a year? Yeah your right, screw those bastards!!
------bzzzzzzzzzzz------- Wrong answer. 1.5% with 0% rate of inflation is better. You're only comparing the net spread between return and inflation. When taxes are figured in, the net spread with 1.5%-0% is better.
With a 25% tax rate, that 5% after-tax is only 3.75%, and after subtracting inflation, and you're looking at .25% real return. For 1.5%, the after tax is 1.125%, which is also your real return.
I get your underlying point, which is that people forget that savings accounts with interest rates of 6-8% came with inflation of ~5%, but you shouldn't forget that taxes ignore inflation.
actually taxes dont ignore inflation,each year the brackets are adjusted downward by about 3% to allow more and more income thru at lower tax rates. been that way for 40 years.
that interest may have been in the 25% marginal bracket in the 1980's , today it maybe 15%. who would ever imagined 68,000 would be in the 15% bracket for a married couple with the first almost 17,000 of that in the 10% bracket. a couple of full retirement age today can have as much as 35k in income and only pay 1500 bucks in taxes.
Last edited by mathjak107; 11-10-2010 at 03:47 AM..
Originally Posted by DSOs_I agree with this, but the minions of the world are at a breaking point. Generation ‘X’ has been financially screwed/manipulated over a long period of time. However, Generation ‘Y’ (20 something) has been financially screwed/manipulated over a very short period of time; I don’t think they’re going to put up with the greedy top 1% to 5%’s behavior much longer.
IMO the old way of banking (more dependence on customer deposits) is going to have to be re-incorporated back into the financial system. 401k’s may be good for people in the 30%+ tax bracket, but people below that need a no-nonsense way of saving/building wealth…… Originally Posted by maschuette -- Top 1% to 5%'s behavior? You mean anybody making more than 87K a year? Yeah your right, screw those bastards!!
The 1st paragraph presumes that the young adults of today will learn quickly that the super rich (top 1-5%) are financially shellacking them via manufactured demand & retirement funds. The fat cats made one big mistake; they inadvertently showed the young generation the workings of the financial ponzi-scheme too soon in life. They’re learning that the fat cats are hoarding all the liquid money & leaving the rest of us with expensive liquid money (credit cards, untouchable 401ks, etc…).
The 2nd paragraph suggests that people in the 30%+ tax bracket are ‘safe’ contributing into a 401k (I assumed that 30%+ was over $110k/year). A person under that percentage needs cash on hand for ‘surprises’in life. What good is having non-liquid money in an account if you have to use your credit card to pay for big ticket items such as car repairs, a new hot water heater, a new oil-burner or Christmas gifts.
IMO low to lower middle income families need to have liquid cash, earning a respectable interest rate, so they don’t feel like they have to take a risk contributing a 401k plan. More importantly the option for paying without incurring high interest rates or FEES!
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I didn't think the rates could get any lower. Pretty soon the banks will charge us to put money into a CD or savings account. After all, they're doing us a big favor by allowing us to do business with them. 
The Economy needs balance
