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Old 12-19-2008, 11:36 PM
Location: wrong planet
5,133 posts, read 10,383,398 times
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If that is the case, they should get ZERO , IMO. Why should US taxpayers bail them out, let China bail them out...
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau

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Old 12-19-2008, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
Did you see the Bloomberg article on how GM just opened up a new factory in China? While they're shutting down US production and telling Congress that the US will lose millions of jobs if they don't get a bailout, they're saying they have no plans to lay off any workers in China.
No of course not and why should they. GM China makes hundreds of millions in profits every year and has been help keeping GM here afloat.

GM has worldwide operations. GM Australia(Holden), GM Russia, GM Europe(Opel and Vauxhall and Chevy), GM Korea, GM South Africa, GM Argentina, Brazil, etc.

Many of it's other operations actually make money.
Old 12-21-2008, 04:10 PM
228 posts, read 537,383 times
Reputation: 157
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Many of it's other operations actually make money.

Of course they do. Their work force in other countries isn't bogged down by a little problem called the UAW.
Old 12-22-2008, 09:11 AM
16,434 posts, read 19,503,409 times
Reputation: 9544
Originally Posted by borborygmi View Post
Of course they do. Their work force in other countries isn't bogged down by a little problem called the UAW.
True that, and the CEOs don't get X1000 the worker bees pay either. When Daimler Benz bought Chrysler a while back the CEO of Chrysler made ten times as much as his boss at Benz.
Old 12-22-2008, 12:04 PM
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
11,078 posts, read 29,923,000 times
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Default Good real estate market news

Priced-to-sell homes selling - as reported by The Denver Business Journal, sales of distressed homes, including foreclosures and short sales, rose 41.2 percent year-to-date over last year according to a report put out by Your Castle Real Estate using data obtained from MetroList Inc.. Some high-end neighborhoods, like Capitol Hill, Golden and Denver's Platt Park actually had price increases.
Old 12-22-2008, 04:02 PM
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,791,039 times
Reputation: 1697
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
Priced-to-sell homes selling - as reported by The Denver Business Journal, sales of distressed homes, including foreclosures and short sales, rose 41.2 percent year-to-date over last year according to a report put out by Your Castle Real Estate using data obtained from MetroList Inc.. Some high-end neighborhoods, like Capitol Hill, Golden and Denver's Platt Park actually had price increases.
‘Priced-to-sell’ homes selling - Denver Business Journal:
Ah, yes, the good news is that if you price your home to sell, in other words at a steep loss, you might be able to unload it before it forces you into bankruptcy. 44% of those sellers were banks who had already foreclosed on the house, or short sales where the bank accepts less than the amount owed and writes off the rest. Owning a house destroyed the credit of 44% of today's sellers...but oh, yeah, for the next greater fool it'll be different, right?? God forbid we learn a lesson from those pitiful misguided souls.

Denver YOY prices dropped an average of 12.7%, according to the same article. So, for the owner of a house valued at $300,000 a year ago, that's a $38,100 loss, or $3,175 per month in equity flowing down the storm drain. So every day of the year, including Sundays and Holidays, the house loses $105 in value. Every day.

So what are you waiting for?? Invest in a depreciating asset and start your personal voyage on the road to poverty today!! It's the Great Amerikan Dream!

Debt on a Depreciating Asset is Dumb
Old 12-22-2008, 06:02 PM
3,460 posts, read 5,036,081 times
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Here's some of our local government layoffs....

http://www.examiner.com/a-1756097~24_El_Paso_County_sheriff_s_jobs_cut_from_ budget.html (http://www.examiner.com/a-1756097%7E24_El_Paso_County_sheriff_s_jobs_cut_fro m_budget.html - broken link)
Silt forced to lay off town staff positions | PostIndependent.com
Layoff Daily
Old 12-23-2008, 10:46 AM
8,317 posts, read 26,267,452 times
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Another thread has been resurrected over on the Denver board that debates whether or not we are seeing the end of suburbia as we know it. My answer is that we are not seeing its manifest destruction on the horizon just yet, but it is as surely coming as tonight's sunset. The economic "perfect storm" that I and others have predicted is gathering itself together, getting more powerful by the day, and reaching that point of "tornado-genesis" that it becomes a mega-destructive monster that will be beyond human control. At that point, it will do what it is going to do--with the middle class (and the suburban middle class, in particular) being its primary target. Our moribund federal government, our unprepared state and local governments, our bloated and inefficient business institutions, and a bankrupt public will be left to try to rebuild something--anything--out of the economic rubble. That task will fall primarily on younger generations--themselves hardly prepared at all, either emotionally or economically, for the task--and they will despise their parents for squandering their future and for leaving that younger generation with a legacy of debt that those young folks had little part in creating.

Kunstler's December 15th blog entry ( James Howard Kunstler ) describes this pretty well. A couple of quotes from that must-read:

Just as global oil production peaked, our economy evolved into a morbid hypertrophy, and the chief manifestation of it was the suburban sprawl-building fiesta that has now climaxed in the real estate bust. By the early 21st century, when so much American manufacturing had been swapped out to Asia, there was no business left except sprawl-building -- a manifold tragedy which wrecked the banks that financed it, and left the ordinary people mortgaged to it with ruinous liabilities.
That economy is now in its death throes. The "normality" it represents to so many Americans is gone and can't be brought back, no matter how wistfully we watch it recede. Even so, it was obviously not good for the country. The terrain of North America has been left scarred by unlovable objects and baleful futureless vistas that, from now on, will shed whatever pecuniary value they once had. It represents the physical counterpart to the financial mess that has been left to the young generations to clean up -- and the job will take a very long time.
We have to, so to speak, get to a place mentally where we can face the kinds of change that are now necessary and unavoidable. We're not there yet. It's not clear whether the elected new national leadership knows just how severe the required changes will really be. Surely the public would be shocked to grasp what's in store. Probably the worst thing we can do now would be to mount a campaign to stay where we are, lost in raptures of happy motoring and blue-light-special shopping.
Probably the most important sentence of this blog is this:

The economy we're moving into will have to be one of real work, producing real things of value, at a scale consistent with energy resource reality.
A cursory look at what constitutes today's Colorado economy shows how far we have deviated from the "reality" described above. That's gonna cause real trouble for Colorado in pretty short order.

You also have to wonder how this component of the equation will play out in Colorado and elsewhere:

The crucial element in the transformation underway will be emotion. The American experience for a few generations has produced an adult population with very childish instincts, increasingly worse each decade. For instance, the desperate power fantasies among the younger tattooed lumpenproles -- those with next-to-zero real economic power -- suggest a certain unappetizing playing-out of resource competition when the supply of Cheez Doodles and Pepsi starts to dwindle. But even the heretofore gainfully employed middle classes are pretty lost in fantasies at least of comfort an convenience. For years now, I have wondered how their sense of grievance and resentment will be expressed when the supermarket shelves run bare and the cardboard signs get taped over the local gas pump and the cable TV gets cut off for non-payment. You wonder, to put it bluntly, how far gone we really are.
And, I might add, when the public finally figures out that the government--in its vile attempts to bail out that which can not and should not be saved--has debased their currency, ignited ruinous inflation that silently robs their savings, and exhausts the wealth and financial resources necessary to pay for such "niceties" as Social Security and health care (whether it is "socialized" or not)--well, as one of my cowboy friends likes to say, people might just get a little "hos-STYLE."

Last edited by jazzlover; 12-23-2008 at 10:57 AM..
Old 12-23-2008, 11:06 PM
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I think recession is good in some ways in that it scours out the bad and gets us on the right track for the future whatever that may be. I always felt with the great depression that part of the issue was our change from a agriculture based economy to a manufacturing based economy. Recently we've had dramatic improvements in technology and communication and we really need a period of time for everyone to catch up and get on the same page.
Old 12-24-2008, 05:36 PM
730 posts, read 1,690,843 times
Reputation: 426
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
WARNING: If you are are addicted to Doom and Gooom, do not read this article. The hint of optimism in it will spoil your day!

Here's a brief quote from an article in Fortune magaizine titled: This crisis could have a happy ending
And there's the rub. I believe that in order for the market to achieve a sustainable advance that is above the mean, we are due for some unforeseen positive event or events. Think about it. In the 1990s stocks went way up because of an unanticipated revolution in technology, i.e., networking and the Internet. In this decade we had a slew of unexpected negative events - bookended by 9/11 and this current meltdown. At some point, and it may be a few years from now, we will likely be subjected to an unforeseen positive.
I give it about 60 days. If it isn't looking better, it will get A LOT worse. I do not expect an "unforseen" positive at least not in time.

I really would like to be wrong.
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