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Old 05-21-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,290,257 times
Reputation: 1703

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Oil now over $135/bbl in after-hours trading. Guess we need to go to 12, or maybe 6 hour updates to keep up now.

Oil rises above $135 after unexpected drop in US inventories

Pretty soon someone will figure out a way to raise the price of gas while you're still filling the tank.

At least with debit cards, wheelbarrows won't be needed to haul thousands of bills to the filling station, like in the 1930s Weimar Republic. Of course we'll need to be careful that our debit cards don't auto-combust in our pockets...

Future's soooooooooooooooo bright.

 
Old 05-22-2008, 12:13 AM
 
3,459 posts, read 5,793,604 times
Reputation: 6677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Of course we'll need to be careful that our debit cards don't auto-combust in our pockets...
I hear they've been having a problem with some loan documents spontaneously combusting in Detroit and LA.

The Johnsons are packing.....get some marshmallows
 
Old 05-22-2008, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,997,570 times
Reputation: 9586
Hey Jazz

I think this will make you happy: High gas prices drive farmer to switch to mules (broken link)
 
Old 05-22-2008, 08:45 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,471,711 times
Reputation: 9306
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
Hey Jazz

I think this will make you happy: High gas prices drive farmer to switch to mules (broken link)
Actually, as I posted awhile back on another thread, I knew ranchers in Gunnison who used teams of horses to feed in the winter. It saved fuel and labor, because the horses--unlike a tractor--could be trained to pull the hay wagons slowly across the pasture without a driver. That way the ranch hand could unload the hay wagon by himself without needing another person to drive the tractor while he unloaded the wagon.

I also knew a couple of guys who used draft horses in their logging operation because they could log in sensitive roadless areas not "friendly" to rubber-tired or tracked vehicles.

Who knows?--one of these days a whole lot of things may be done differently. It looks like diesel is probably going to roar past $5.00/gal. this summer. Anyone who thinks that won't engender a big-time "re-ordering" of transportation priorities and processes in this country is daydreaming. I wouldn't give a plugged nickel to be an over-the-road trucker or an airline employee right now. They'd better be making "alternative plans."

On another somewhat related note, Ford's CEO pretty much admitted this morning that a) truck and SUV sales are in the tank and that the company is shifting to producing smaller cars and "crossover" SUV's; and b) that the company really hasn't figured out how to make money without selling big trucks and big SUV's. I guess I should add being an autoworker for one of the Big Three American auto companies to the list of careers where alternative career plans should be in order.
 
Old 05-28-2008, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,290,257 times
Reputation: 1703
Here's an all-around excellent article from the 27 May Washington ComPost.

The Fading of the Mirage Economy
 
Old 05-28-2008, 04:00 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,471,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Here's an all-around excellent article from the 27 May Washington ComPost.

The Fading of the Mirage Economy
I wondered where you'd been, Bob. Maybe barbecuing some weenies up on that Chilean volcano? Just kidding. Maybe it'll spew enough ash and SO2 to counteract global warming for awhile.

Great article that pretty much reinforces what you, I, and some other people have been saying here for awhile.

Meanwhile, more little springs, gizmos, propellers, and other things just keep flying off of the disintegrating economic Good Ship Lollipop. Of course, the captain--and the wannabe captains--of the ship keep telling us that everything is just hunky-dory--"Just ignore all of that screaming down in steerage--the 'core rate' that the ship is sinking looks just fine from up here on the bridge." The "party-hearty" yuppie crowd up on deck is really trying to pretend that everything is good while the band, "The Realtortonaires," keeps playing the retro hits, albeit with some sour notes now and again. Funny, though, the band seems to getting a little smaller, as some of the players quietly skulk into the lifeboats--of which there are clearly not enough.

Hey, but "It's all good," right?
 
Old 05-28-2008, 05:05 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,401,935 times
Reputation: 7017
There is only one person safe in a collapsing economy. That person is the one who is at the bottom. He would be the one we deride in this elitism society--the subsistence farmer on a good piece of land. He grow what he needs to eat. He lives where he works; no commuting. He knows how to live simply; his wants and desires are small. Perhaps he can get off the utility grid and create all the power he needs.

Now, you would say that the person at the top is immune to an economic collapse. Maybe not because he has illusury assets that will disappear quickly in a collapse. He has more wants and needs; he does not know how to live simply. He cannot survive without others to feed him, cloth him and provide him power. He is used to consuming excessive amounts of energy.

Now this subsistence farmer can exist because he can survive with less resources and a downtown will effect him less than the super rich.

The best place to be for subsistence living is not Colorado. It is not the semi-arid, arid or mountainous areas. It is the area with the rich fertile soils with abundant moisture that can support a subsistent lifestyle. Those areas are the places that today people are leaving: The fertile rich lands around the great lakes.

If I was in Michigan, Ohio, Rural New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania--I would stay. I would stay in the states that can survive without imports of foods supplies, that can grow their own. Colorado is not that place. It needs outside food imports. Yes, Geography is of most importance of where we can survive, and it is not here.

If I was younger, healthier I would go back to the Northeast and find a farm and create my own independence so that I could minimize my needs; I would become a subsistence farmer. I would make much of my own food. Grow my own fruit and vegetables. Process my abudance for winter survival. Attempt to disconnect myself from the energy grid. I would then be more free.

I am not young; I am not healthy. I live in a suburbs of Denver that requires me to depend on the energy grid. I am in a way a subsistence urbanite. I live simply; have minimum wants and needs. I look for bargains and buy food when it is cheap and then in larger quantities. I do not eat in restaurants. I cook all my meals. I eat simple foods, inexpensive foods. I have very few extravagant interest. My only expensive vice is this computer toy which will be the first expense to go, if my finances deteriorate.

I live on very little but I know I can live on less. Now, I can survive and be comfortable. Gas Costs have not impacting my auto driving because I drive so little and I can drive less. The big impact on gas costs is the rising costs of all that I need to consume. I have no bills, no outstanding expenses, no mortgages. If need be, I will try to turn my yard into a little farm; crawling around with a little hoe trying to raise what I could. Yea, I can survive and I can Livecontent. Can You???
 
Old 05-28-2008, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,290,257 times
Reputation: 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I wondered where you'd been, Bob. Maybe barbecuing some weenies up on that Chilean volcano?
I'm about ready to throw myself into that volcano...

The movers have invaded the house. Spent all last week getting ready, then all this week in the execution phase. One more day, then at least my worldly possessions will be tracking towards Colorado. I still have a few weeks before I head that way.

But weenies and PBJ sandwiches are indeed what's for dinner around here right now. ARRRGH!!!!
 
Old 05-29-2008, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,290,257 times
Reputation: 1703
Here's today's speech from the currently sitting FOMC voting member and President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, Richard W. Fisher. Read every word. Twice.

Storms on the Horizon
 
Old 05-29-2008, 03:43 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,471,711 times
Reputation: 9306
Wow! What a speech. Hits the nail right on the head. Now, I'm sure someone will suggest, "Well, if we just up the birth rate or allow more immigration, that will provide more people to pay for those who are receiving benefits from the system." That assumes that there are sufficient natural resources available to allow those people to become productive citizens and create the wealth needed for themselves AND all of the people hanging on to them for their entitlement. Unfortunately, those natural resources are NOT going to be available in sufficient quantities, either in the US or worldwide, so more people is no solution. The hard truth is that one or two decades or more of retirement is no longer in the cards for anybody under probably 50 years old--sorry, folks; and endless Medicare subsidies aren't going to be there, either. That's just the "eat **** and die" part of life, and we're there. We've not only borrowed, spent, consumed or wasted just about everything we have--we've spent and borrowed a good chunk of what a couple of following generations will be able to produce. How selfish can we get? The party is over . . .
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