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Old 03-23-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
5,735 posts, read 10,615,230 times
Reputation: 11427

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What's an outrage is people being bankrupted by their medical bills, people dying too young due to 'pre-existing conditions,' and millions of kids and adults receiving no medical care except through the emergency clinic at a hospital. That's what was outrageous.

What's not outrageous is our country finally giving its citizens what our immediate neighbors--Canada and Mexico--have had for years. Not to mention the dozen other first tier nations that have equitable health care coverage for ALL their citizens.

We like to think the USA is number one--well, it's been last in the area of health care for far too long...
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
1,879 posts, read 2,818,978 times
Reputation: 2986
I am THRILLED that Health Care REFORM passed. I'm moving from 1 state to another and still carry Fl insurance ($500. per month) ....(I still own a home in Fl) I looked into switching to NC health insurance and because of a few common pre existing conditions I was quoted $1600. per month...OMG...I almost FAINTED, I don't have that kind of $$$$ and the thought of being w/out insurance terrifies me. I don't really understand how people against reform can possibly justify that. If you can, please explain!!!!
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Castle Hills
1,133 posts, read 2,419,542 times
Reputation: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
My biggest problem with it, is that I dont see any guarantee that the poor people who cant afford care now, are going to be fully compensated for the outflow from their pocket for coverage. We are talking about people who cant even afford an extra $20 a month, now you are going to force them to buy some private insurance or be fined/possibly imprisoned?

My further problem is that, where are all the measures to keep costs down? How is the government proposing to cut the huge profits medical companies are making to get costs in line? How is this simply not going to become corporate welfare by press ganging the 50 million people without coverage now in to paying customers under the threat of fines/imprisonment?
As you know I usually disagree with you but man.. you are spot on here.

The poor people that have to pay out of pocket will get subsidies to do so. However, as you mentioned, these people can't even afford an extra $20 a month.. how the hell are they supposed to afford full on healthcare (Which will no doubt continue to rise when the insurance companies have to pay out more than ever before?) The subsidies will be laughable and will not help these people. Most of them will not even get the insurance because they simply won't be able to afford it, and then on top of that they will be fined! GTFOH!

Where are the cost cutting measures? I was thinking the same thing. Where the hell are they? They are not even going to let the insurance companies compete across state lines. This healthcare bill is a giant f-up!

Everyone agrees we need TRUE HEALTHCARE REFORM and I applaud Obama for trying to get something done about it unlike other presidents before him, but with that said they are trying to push a bill through that is unconstitutional and wack in so many ways. Why do you think not 1 republican voted for it? It's because they know it's unconstitutional/wrong and want no part at all to do with it. It's a partisan only bill that seriously needs to be repealed immediately.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
1,879 posts, read 2,818,978 times
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I'd like to add that I am 55 years old, looking to downsize and live a simple comfortable life, nothing extravagant.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:25 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 27,733,361 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveLoveLaugh View Post
I am THRILLED that Health Care REFORM passed. I'm moving from 1 state to another and still carry Fl insurance ($500. per month) ....(I still own a home in Fl) I looked into switching to NC health insurance and because of a few common pre existing conditions I was quoted $1600. per month...OMG...I almost FAINTED, I don't have that kind of $$$$ and the thought of being w/out insurance terrifies me. I don't really understand how people against reform can possibly justify that. If you can, please explain!!!!

sure.

younger, lower-risk people like me will be forced to subsidize care for older, higher-risk individuals like yourself. i can see where you'd like that.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
5,735 posts, read 10,615,230 times
Reputation: 11427
Guess what, younger person? Should you get in an accident or need an unexpected operation, your only option was to go to an emergency clinic for treatement--or die.

And guess what? The payment for that emergency care was borne by all of us taxpayers--including yourself...so you have been already subsidizing ALL uninsureds--young or older.

And look around..there are plenty of younger people who are obese, have diabetes and other pre-existing conditions...which meant, up until now, they could never afford any health insurance...making sure all of us were paying for their hospital care at clinics.

Look at the full picture, we've been subsidizing the uninsureds--of all ages--for many, many years.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:11 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 27,733,361 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
Guess what, younger person? Should you get in an accident or need an unexpected operation, your only option was to go to an emergency clinic for treatement--or die.
if i get into an accident, i go to the emergency room regardless of my insured status.

that's how the system currently works, and this new bill doesn't change that.

Quote:
And guess what? The payment for that emergency care was borne by all of us taxpayers--including yourself...so you have been already subsidizing ALL uninsureds--young or older.
that is not true. many people pay for emergency care with their existing health insurance.

that's how the system currently works, and this new bill doesn't change that.

Quote:
And look around..there are plenty of younger people who are obese, have diabetes and other pre-existing conditions...which meant, up until now, they could never afford any health insurance...
that is not true. not all obese or diabetic young people are unable to afford health insurance.

Quote:
Look at the full picture, we've been subsidizing the uninsureds--of all ages--for many, many years.
of course, but that has nothing to do with my comment. my comment is that this legislation forces young people to subsidize old people.

hell i didn't even say the legislation was bad. "Life Love Laugh" asked how people who were against reform could justify that, so i responded. you're getting an attitude over your own poor reading comprehension.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,395,863 times
Reputation: 2547
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
What's not outrageous is our country finally giving its citizens what our immediate neighbors--Canada and Mexico--have had for years. Not to mention the dozen other first tier nations that have equitable health care coverage for ALL their citizens.
Do you even know what this healthcare bill is doing? This is not a guarantee of health care for all, its forcing all in to private healthcare by threat of fines/imprisonment.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,794 posts, read 17,546,289 times
Reputation: 9424
I was listening to the health care hullabaloo on one of the networks on Sunday. The talking head was referring to a family where both husband and wife lost their jobs and thus their health insurance. They have a young son who needs heart surgery with a price tag of $150,000. He rambled on and on about health insurance and the lack thereof, but never once questioned the $150,000 being charged for the surgery, never once asked how much does it REALLY cost to perform a heart surgery, never once did he question the inhumane practice of profiteering from someone elses misfortune. The entire health insurance fiasco has utterly failed to address this issue. The battle has been about who pays for these ridiculous fees, and nothing about getting the greed out of health care. Until the greed issue is addressed, nothing of substance will be accomplished, and we-the-people will keep getting screwed by the corporatocry that this country has become.

However, I am happy to see that no one can be denied coverage or dropped for a pre-existing condition. That is a move in the right direction. I am willing to pay slighty higher taxes to support this, though I'm hoping that the challange to the mandatory requirement to carry health insurance wins out. Forcing a citizen to purchase health insurance makes this bill less appealing to me, but overall, I'm glad it passed. Now let's get the price gouging for medical care out of the system, then it will be a bill of real substance.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:18 PM
 
3,102 posts, read 991,611 times
Reputation: 1415
Not sure why there is such an outrage over all this. It's actually pretty funny. First off the bill is NOT unconstitutional. There are already several constitutional lawyers who say these lawsuits will not go far in the courts.

Secondly, the majority of Americans have health insurance anyways so I don't see how these penalties will affect you.

Thirdly, the fee/penalties for not having insurance won't start until 2014 when the penalty will be a whopping $95 for not having insurance.

Forth,
If you cannot afford insurance there are subsidies to help you out.

And Fifth,
If you really are against the fee penalty then don't pay it and stiff the gov't. Here is what they are currently saying about the penalties.

“The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty," according to the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation. "Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner."
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