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Old 03-23-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,700,362 times
Reputation: 922

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufcrules1 View Post
Can we get off the whole god talk/ hatred of god talk? Just let it die already. Lets continue discussing the terrible unconstitutional healthcare bill that Obama is about to sign and what we can do to reverse it. I noticed that several states are already lined up to sue the government as soon as the bill is signed.

Agreed. And in the meantime, maybe a few posters in this thread could read up on the historical and philosophical debate about natural vs legal rights so their posts will sound a little more informed next time!
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
6,903 posts, read 9,679,161 times
Reputation: 7598
My version of reform:

Give everyone in the US free healthcare insurance, send the bill to Goldman Sachs They have received far too much bailout money and a few of those execs can afford to give back a little to society.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
6,903 posts, read 9,679,161 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
Thirdly, the fee/penalties for not having insurance won't start until 2014 when the penalty will be a whopping $95 for not having insurance.
The fines will eventually be 2.5% of your income, if you make $100k then that's $2,500.

Since there is no public option how does this prevent price gouging by the private insurance companies? My thinking is that now that insurance companies are mandated by law to accept high risk clients with pre-existing conditions and the the premiums are going to skyrocket. The poor will receive subsidies but the already overtaxed middle class will be screwed.

If we as citizens are REQUIRED to carry insurance then it's only fair that there are strict PRICE CONTROLS on the insurance premiums.

I also don't see any exemptions for the unemployed. What if I lost my job and can't afford insurance... are they going to expect me to pay hundreds of dollars in premiums when I don't even have income?
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
704 posts, read 1,383,068 times
Reputation: 590
Considering the Iraq war will cost around us around $3 trillion and possibly more and the afghanistan war will cost us several trillion as well. This current legislation doesn't look to bad cost wise.

I have never understood why in America, people have no problem throwing money out the window when it comes blowing villages up and destroying poppy fields but my God if we even spend a dollar on helping our people at home your considered a red flag waving socialist/commie bastard who has no respect for the people. Regardless of the political jargon though, this bill is financially insane. Of course Democrats are lucky cause the negative aspects of this bill wont be seen until long after the upcoming November elections. Anyone that thinks this bill wont skyrocket in cost has their head in sand. It will still be cheaper than the wars though, well at least for a long while.

This bill does good and bad things and don't worry it wont be the end of the world or America as we know it. For those that feel that there is too much government you can always feel free to move on over to the free market and 0 government country of Sudan. I heard the health care over there is dirt cheap...
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:17 PM
 
1,492 posts, read 7,227,677 times
Reputation: 1437
I agree with the original poster..... this 'law' has to get shot down, somehow.

Can you imagine.... in order to be an American...you have to 'purchase' a product...'health insurance'

Makes no sense.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:29 PM
 
22,770 posts, read 27,735,748 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGrace View Post
I agree with the original poster..... this 'law' has to get shot down, somehow.

Can you imagine.... in order to be an American...you have to 'purchase' a product...'health insurance'

Makes no sense.


i agree with this. in practical terms i have no major problem with the fact that we're expanding health coverage; i think single-payer is the ideal solution.

my problem is with the central idea that we are forcing American citizens to buy products that support someone's profit motive.

it is like the financial bailout; we run around putting band-aids on everything, but create moral hazards and conflicts of interest that are clearly stupid and unsustainable in the long run. if I had to generalize, i'd say that our nation's congress does not adequate plan for the long-term.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:29 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,682,363 times
Reputation: 4453
i also remember when people thought a new election meant that their electric bills were going to be paid also..... (probably the same people that think they are going to get free or low cost health care)

we have a new president as bad as the old president. obama cannot possibly tax enough to generate the revenue that he is going to need for this program,(more care, better service, lower cost ) which will drag us deeper into debt, and the preexisting condition is an absolute guarantee that will happen. he won't stop the war spending or other spending to try to tackle the health care issue so basically we are all screwed yet again, only some haven't figured it out yet.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,626,572 times
Reputation: 5180
It was the insurance companies that were the money behind this bill. They will continue to make obscene profits, while the taxpayers will be stuck with another poorly administered and corrupt government program. Can anyone name one thing the government is involved in that is not a financial and bureaucratic catastrophe? There is no reason the Medical Community could not have had low cost non emergency clinics as an alternative to emergency room care all along. No reason except they wanted government involved mandatory health care as much as the insurance companies. Soon health care will be rife with the same kind of cost outrages we currently have in the rest of government procurement and contracting. 12 dollars for an aspirin will seem cheap in a few years. Why anyone would think getting government involved in anything is a good idea is a testament to just how gullible as a people we have become.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Kansas
3,855 posts, read 12,238,853 times
Reputation: 1722
I see two sides of the coin. I see people who are over the flippin moon about it and I see people like me who already had insurance and are crossing fingers hoping it doesn't negatively affect the cost or quality of the healthcare that I have.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:42 PM
 
22,770 posts, read 27,735,748 times
Reputation: 14617
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Why anyone would think getting government involved in anything is a good idea is a testament to just how gullible as a people we have become.
for years we elected GOP politicians who talked a big game about small government and free markets, but somehow when it came to policy, were some of the most intense big-government supporters that we had in the 20th century.

a good portion of the electorate is fiscally conservative, but does not see any choice on the ballot that represents fiscal conservatism. it then becomes a question of the lesser evil, welfare for the poor, or welfare for the wealthy, which is an easy question for most folks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drjones96 View Post
I see two sides of the coin. I see people who are over the flippin moon about it and I see people like me who already had insurance and are crossing fingers hoping it doesn't negatively affect the cost or quality of the healthcare that I have.

yep, that's me. i'm happy with my insurance, and i just hope this thousand-page bill doesn't screw it up any. my brother is a surgeon, though, and i am concerned about his situation. i believe that his well-being is generally tied to that of the hospitals. he is a neurosurgeon who performs very specialized procedures, and he once estimated to me that 85% of his patients have no intention of paying. to make matters worse, he claims that the indigent have the most very severe and demanding attitudes of entitlement. hopefully this legislation will help fix whatever causes this.

Last edited by le roi; 03-23-2010 at 01:50 PM..
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