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Old 04-27-2010, 12:30 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,461,538 times
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You have to remember that GM (and Chrysler) recieved two different bailouts. The first was a direct loan to the company pre-bankruptcy. The second bailout was essentially cash in exchange for stock. In the case of GM, there are no privately held shares. The UAW, government of Canada and the U.S. government essentially own the company with the U.S. government owning a little over 60%. The UAW was issued shares in lieu of payment on other debts and Canda put up money.

What GM did was pay off the original loan that was given to them pre-bankruptcy with money from an escrow fund that was established during the second "real" bailout. The catch here is that GM owed the money from the loan to the government regardless and was paying interest, whereas the money in the escrow account they are not required to pay back. The only way for the government to get the money back from the real bailout is to sell their shares once GM begins to be traded again. The government stands to actually profit off the bailout, but that is very dependent upon the success of GM and their future stock price.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 3,460,840 times
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That new commercial about how great GM is and how they repaid the loan with interest is an outright lie to our faces.

GM makes nothing but junk that falls apart on you at 50k miles.

I remember when I was in school for my MBA back in the mid-1990's, the automakers were drooling over the China market.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:54 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,461,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post

GM makes nothing but junk that falls apart on you at 50k miles.
Apparently GM isn't the only one who likes to tell outright lies.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 3,460,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Apparently GM isn't the only one who likes to tell outright lies.
My first vehicle was a 1988 Pontiac. The whole thing broke down at only 60k miles. After that, my dad's Chevy truck transmission gave out around the same time. Now my father in law's GMC Envoy transmission also gave out way too soon and he's out $5,000 to fix it.

Tell me how that is quality?
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:45 PM
 
304 posts, read 833,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy View Post
I couldn't fit my last word in the title so here it is: Yahoo !

As some of you know, I'm not real bright. Can someone explain all of these mainstream media articles recently about so many financial outfits supposedly paying all of their bailout and TARP money back to the gubmint?

Now GM says things are going gangbusters and they've paid all the money back!

Um, something smells real fishy here, Watson.

Yes, hmmm, Dear Sherlock, I do believe I've identified the species of recently deceased fish responsible for this rather foul odor, me suspects it is of the Bernankus Geitheistcash species? What do you think, me fine fellow?

Perhaps if we puff on our pipes, Dear Watson, the obnoxiousness of this most foul maritime odor shall be reduced! What sayeth you, old chap?

Oh yeah, sure, all my neighbors have gone out and bought brand new GM vehicles lately! Haven't yours?

Tell me this, folks, if all these guys were able to pay back all those tens of billions of dollars so quickly, why the hell did we need to give them the money in the first place?

Kinda brings to mind that old Grateful Dead tune, The Greatest Story Ever Told or something I think was the title of the song.

Why don't they give all the health care companies tens of billions of dollars too? Maybe then I could finally get this left knee injury fixed. Um, I'm sure they'd pay all the money back to the gubmint after a year or so, too, right? Wink wink, nudge nudge. Hey Ben, my check's in the mail, um, USATODAY said so, yeah, that's the ticket, um, oh yeah, really !
Something smells fishy is right! The 1st time I saw GM's commercial, it nearly brought a tear to my eye - so patriotic and inspiring with the big, old CEO (whatever) marching along, bragging about paying the loans off 5 years early and puting people back to work, and the thunderous musical score in the background...then watching the commercial multiple times since, it just makes me sick to my stomach and pissed off! Now Ford is saying they are in a better financial situation than in a very long time, forgive me I just got a whiff of that on the news so don't know the whole kit and kaboodle. At any rate, hope people just huncker down with what they got for a while and not support these yahoos. Remember, the CEO's are BIL's and college roommates to the Wallstreet scum, the Ins. agents and the senators/congressmen - they are all in bed together or related somehow. I've lobbied on the national level a few times and during those times came to realize DC is a tiny town with very long streets...don't be fooled. Trust your instincts!
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:40 AM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,679,140 times
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who the heck is going to ever trust GM when they keep lying?

GM received $52 billion from the US government in bailout money but has only paid back $6.7 billion. How then is this being reported as "repayment in full 5 years ahead of schedule?" Only $6.7 billion was technically considered to be a "loan". The rest of it was the government buying GM stock when it was falling like a rock and NO ONE ELSE WOULD. The government's decision to ignore contract law and blow out the bondholders GM owed money isn't going to be lost on potential investors. GM does not honor contract law so who the heck is going to be supporting them in the future, if not the government? as well, they got government money for their borrowing arm GMAC which was heavily into the subprime mortgage business, which is another mess.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: silver springs
791 posts, read 1,297,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
And by sticking it to all their creditors in bankruptcy court, including their original shareholders and bondholders. I'll never, ever buy a car from GM. Ford has done it the right way, so that's who will get my business for the rest of my life.
Ford is the ONLY ONE who has a sound business model. all other manufacturers can`t tie their own shoes without help from the taxpayer
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:27 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,679,140 times
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i am glad to see ford doing well and can appreciate them trying to address their issues without sticking it to the rest of americans.

ford has generated a lot of good will for themselves.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:15 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 38,461,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
My first vehicle was a 1988 Pontiac. The whole thing broke down at only 60k miles. After that, my dad's Chevy truck transmission gave out around the same time. Now my father in law's GMC Envoy transmission also gave out way too soon and he's out $5,000 to fix it.

Tell me how that is quality?
In your personal experience you have had problems with GM cars, so hence they must all be junk. I'm pretty sure I can go out and find people who won't buy Ford, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, etc. for the exact same reasons.

If your only experience with GM dates back to the Reagan/Bush Sr. years, then you really should go check them out and see how far they've come. I am not a GM fanboy, I'm not really a fanboy for any car company, but I have owned many GM vehicles and my experience was nothing like yours.

My criticism is more addressed to your generalization and blanket statement. While it may be true to you, it is not true to everyone and is far from todays reality.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
2,166 posts, read 2,600,866 times
Reputation: 4845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
Not only was I against the bailouts, I wanted to see GM go under, to join the likes of Pan Am, TWA, and Circuit City in our nations corporate history book. GM was (and apparently still is) an arrogant cur of a company stuck with an archaic mindset that deserves/d to die like no other.

Alas. We all know what's really going on here.

1. If GM goes under, it takes the Labor (read: Democrat) voting bloc with it.

2. GM, being an American institution. Most of the rest of the world already hates the US. A failure of GM would be an omlette of an egg on the face of our national pride. The hubris, prestige, and status reasons alone were probably 50% of the reason it was saved.

So sad. But don't worry. They will never get a dime of business from me.
Can anyone offer me some proof that the above is NOT true at least to some extent?

On that note, I noticed when I drove by my local Chevy/GM dealer this morning that there was not a single customer on the lot that I could see. Plenty of inventory. But nary a customer or saleperson in sight. Likewise, the "customer parking" lot didn't have a single car in it. And this was at 11:00 in the morning. That made me feel good. I was half tempted to pull in while driving my Mustang and rub their noses in it: I will never, EVER buy a GM product or give business to any establishment selling them.

Alas, I'm better than that and took the high road and drove on.

As I said above: GM is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with American business today: inefficient, mired in a cacaphony of shady "creative reporting" numbers trickery, stupendously arrogant and short sighted, and stuck in a bass-ackwards [sic] "But we've always done it that way" mentality.

Although I don't see it happening for now, I am still hoping and praying for a complete and total collapse of GM, taking everyone who is onboard that ship down with it. The company itself, the UAW, the dealers, the NASCAR loving-flag waving "Red-White-And-Blue" GM cheerleaders.....every last one of them. Buh-bye.

-Good riddance.
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