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Old 05-02-2010, 01:25 AM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 6,049,199 times
Reputation: 3353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
Yes, Wall Street alone caused 9/11. And Wall Street alone caused the Great Depression. Of course we cannot blame the idiot Average-Joe Americans who took on massive amounts of debt to speculate in equities. Sound familiar? Kind of like the idiot Average-Joe Americans of today who took on massive amounts of debt to speculate in the housing market? Is everyone who lives in a flyover state this stupid? Oh I hope not.

If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have anything to move around, regardless of the liquidity? Do you even know what liquidity is? Do you even know the context of my statement? Are you saying that you create money? Do you have a printing press in your house?

Of course nobody hates Wall Street when times are good.
Chill kiddo, apparently you aren't very in-tune to context over the interwebz.

I didn't say that WS caused 9/11 nor did I say that WS alone caused the GD.

Calm down hun, not everyone resembles the idiot you imagine that amassed tons of debt, especially not myself. Nor would I presume to insist all NYC'ers are pompous mules. You know, since that statement doesn't resemble you at all....
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:24 AM
 
2,721 posts, read 3,915,397 times
Reputation: 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
That's right. And we can still take your jobs, so we are not worried about Joe Mainstreet one bit. You can call us a-holes but I'll call the average Joe stupid. I'd rather be the former than the latter. Most Americans are idiots anyway.

And let's not forget the Average Joe who works his 40-hour workweek in a union job with no accountability, and a pension and guaranteed healthcare for life after 20 years. Like that's not hurting municipalities at all. If America wants to reform Wall Street, the unions have to go as well. Our bonuses go, so does your tax revenue and your paychecks, get that in your head Joe Six-Pack?

Our bonuses go, and Wall Street employees move somewhere that's more conducive to capitalism and business (Hong Kong / China / UAE). America, say goodbye to your spot as the #1 financial and economic power in the world. Sorry Joe Six-Pack, you want to move to China to suck on the government's teat? Welcome to the sweatshop, hope you can stay a while - you'll be able to know how to make a sneaker from scratch in less than 30 minutes!

Oh but you live in San Francisco, you already know how getting raped by the govt and paying 10% in Sales Tax feels. How would you like for that number to skyrocket? You seem to have this magical notion that calling us a-holes really hurts our feelings. I know that in San Fran, the land of sunshine and rainbows and lollipops it means something but here's a newsflash: We live in NYC, and many of us are subjected to this on a daily basis by bosses / clients. We do not care.

I know it's painful to grasp but that's what's going to happen if Obama has his way. Welcome to your new, globalized world. In the 1930s, D.C. could pass reforms on Wall Street and that's ok. They try to pull that stunt today and I'll start looking on Hong Kong Craigslist for apartments. I won't be the only one. Their highest taxation bracket is 20%. Very hard to beat.
You aren't part of wall street, when the media refers to "wall street" they are talking about HEDGE FUND MANAGERS who make MILLIONS or BILLIONS of dollars a year. Not NYC Analysts who will probably be out of a job when things turn south. Unless I'm wrong and you pull in a million dollar paycheck every year-- but from your other posts I highly doubt that. Don't be so arrogant!
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,091 posts, read 11,989,500 times
Reputation: 14225
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
Our bonuses go, and Wall Street employees move somewhere that's more conducive to capitalism and business (Hong Kong / China / UAE). America, say goodbye to your spot as the #1 financial and economic power in the world. Sorry Joe Six-Pack, you want to move to China to suck on the government's teat? Welcome to the sweatshop, hope you can stay a while - you'll be able to know how to make a sneaker from scratch in less than 30 minutes!
America is already losing its spot as the #1 financial and economic power in the world, even with you goons staying here. This is what happens in a globalized world where you hardly produce anything anymore. You think you guys are somehow helping America stay on top?

You've just basically admitted that you guys were crooks out to rob America, not help America. That's NOT the way Wall Street used to work. Wall Street used to be an enabler of economic growth and development by facilitating the allocation of capital to areas of highest return. It used to be that when you guys took the risk, YOU bore the consequences (that's also why you deserved the reward). Now, you do deals that you know will screw society and I bear the consequences. How is that "capitalism"? How is that helping us remain the #1 financial and economic power in the world? How much benefit did you really end up creating for the American economy with those kinds of securitized deals?

We need Wall Street, but what you apparently forgot is that we also need a healthy Main Street in order for America to be successful economically and financially. How much of the economy is based on consumption? I'm sure you know the answer to this one.

But of course, the health of the American economy is really not your concern; your concern is raiding the proverbial village, making off like a bandit, and then leaving it up to someone else to put out the fire. So don't try to use our future well-being now as some sort of a defense for your actions. You're certainly not helping reverse the trend of where America is going.

I'm all for Wall Street and for you getting your bonuses - when YOU bear the risk for economically sound deals. That's how it used to work. And the government absolutely should do something to rein in this part of Wall Street, but we know they won't since they're in bed with your bosses anyway...

So go ahead and move abroad if you think that they'll let you run rampant over there for long. When you bring the same kind of acute devastation to the Chinese financial system and then demand they pay for it, they won't go as easy on you as we do over here - they chop heads over there.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:54 PM
 
750 posts, read 1,345,410 times
Reputation: 1162
What a wonderful post on what Wall Street was. And what it is now could not have said it better.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 13,648,994 times
Reputation: 3538
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemorse View Post
I love your posts. I think you are so smart and on target!!! I wish more people really thought the way you did.

Why do you think they want to encourage illegals? This stumps me? Votes? But they are illegal right now? Thanks and keep posting I think your great!!!
It helps Big Business who fund their campaigns/ give them bribes.

Why pay an American citizen the minimum wage when you can pay an illegal half that.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 13,648,994 times
Reputation: 3538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
America is already losing its spot as the #1 financial and economic power in the world, even with you goons staying here. This is what happens in a globalized world where you hardly produce anything anymore. You think you guys are somehow helping America stay on top?

You've just basically admitted that you guys were crooks out to rob America, not help America. That's NOT the way Wall Street used to work. Wall Street used to be an enabler of economic growth and development by facilitating the allocation of capital to areas of highest return. It used to be that when you guys took the risk, YOU bore the consequences (that's also why you deserved the reward). Now, you do deals that you know will screw society and I bear the consequences. How is that "capitalism"? How is that helping us remain the #1 financial and economic power in the world? How much benefit did you really end up creating for the American economy with those kinds of securitized deals?

We need Wall Street, but what you apparently forgot is that we also need a healthy Main Street in order for America to be successful economically and financially. How much of the economy is based on consumption? I'm sure you know the answer to this one.

But of course, the health of the American economy is really not your concern; your concern is raiding the proverbial village, making off like a bandit, and then leaving it up to someone else to put out the fire. So don't try to use our future well-being now as some sort of a defense for your actions. You're certainly not helping reverse the trend of where America is going.


I'm all for Wall Street and for you getting your bonuses - when YOU bear the risk for economically sound deals. That's how it used to work. And the government absolutely should do something to rein in this part of Wall Street, but we know they won't since they're in bed with your bosses anyway...

So go ahead and move abroad if you think that they'll let you run rampant over there for long. When you bring the same kind of acute devastation to the Chinese financial system and then demand they pay for it, they won't go as easy on you as we do over here - they chop heads over there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Actually, Marx described cyclic nature of economic boom bust cycles including current one. To put it shortly - capitalists are destroying their customer base (i.e. workers) to maximize their profits = eventual bust of demand. So far government, bankers, unions and bleeding hearts liberals managed to soften cycles (using different tricks). However, it looks like that old tricks do not work and nobody came up with new ones. Even more importantly, traditional ways to mitigate ugly side of capitalism by stimulating demand of the alienated (from means of production) masses are about to hit the wall of resource and ecological constraints. That wall is a way more scary beast than crumbling financial pyramid bankers built to loan expropriated money back to the proles (in order to stimulate demand thus postponing the reckoning day).
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,091 posts, read 11,989,500 times
Reputation: 14225
Protect taxpayers from Wall Street risk - CNN.com

Here's an opinion article by another dumb American (i.e., not a Wall Street hack). Read this, people. Derivatives are useful instruments in many cases, but there is NO good reason why the taxpayer should be the effective counterparty to risky and sometimes economically unsound deals involving exotics. Such misuse doesn't make us a more economically successful nation in the long run, doesn't make us more globally competitive in the long run, doesn't make us a fairer society in the long run, and it sure as hell isn't what capitalism used to be about - or should be about.

Don't ever be cowed by any smart Wall Street person who tells you that we can't ever touch these things with regulation under any circumstances; they are just looking out for their own pocketbook, hoping to be able to continue to push through all kinds of manipulations that will leave YOU (all of us) holding the bag every time things don't work out for them. They can spin it however they want, but it will always amount to a free ride - a negative externality - perpetuated by unethical and greedy people, plain and simple. Again, I have no problem with people reaping big rewards if they took the risk fair and square. But if I'm expected to open my wallet and directly pay for the downside of someone else's deal, I damn well should get some of the direct upside.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:36 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,681,353 times
Reputation: 4453
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Protect taxpayers from Wall Street risk - CNN.com

Here's an opinion article by another dumb American (i.e., not a Wall Street hack). Read this, people. Derivatives are useful instruments in many cases, but there is NO good reason why the taxpayer should be the effective counterparty to risky and sometimes economically unsound deals involving exotics. Such misuse doesn't make us a more economically successful nation in the long run, doesn't make us more globally competitive in the long run, doesn't make us a fairer society in the long run, and it sure as hell isn't what capitalism used to be about - or should be about.

Don't ever be cowed by any smart Wall Street person who tells you that we can't ever touch these things with regulation under any circumstances; they are just looking out for their own pocketbook, hoping to be able to continue to push through all kinds of manipulations that will leave YOU (all of us) holding the bag every time things don't work out for them. They can spin it however they want, but it will always amount to a free ride - a negative externality - perpetuated by unethical and greedy people, plain and simple. Again, I have no problem with people reaping big rewards if they took the risk fair and square. But if I'm expected to open my wallet and directly pay for the downside of someone else's deal, I damn well should get some of the direct upside.
nice earlier post, ambient, and nice article.

The modest proposal of the agriculture committee is that the U.S. government (the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) stop underwriting these risks. If banks wish to write derivatives, they would have to do so through a separate affiliate within the holding company. And if the bank made bad gambles, the taxpayer wouldn't have to pick up the tab.

that seems simple enough!

stiglitz got it right when he said that the basic lesson of economics is there’s no such thing as a free lunch, and there’s no such thing as a free war, and there’s no such thing as a free bailout.
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