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Old 05-07-2010, 08:55 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,331,858 times
Reputation: 4478

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Quote:
Originally Posted by npumcrisz View Post
Never say never!!

There must be a time; l pray before l'm forced to file for bankcruptcy.
Well, we would have to:

1. Be willing to quit Oil.
2. Stop debt and paying interest.
3. Stop lying and cheating as a business practice.
4. Produce more than we consume.

Overall, that does not look likely a country-level, so that make the "Never" prediction likely.

However, we can choose those as individuals and do fairly well.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 3,461,803 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Well, we would have to:

1. Be willing to quit Oil.
2. Stop debt and paying interest.
3. Stop lying and cheating as a business practice.
4. Produce more than we consume.

Overall, that does not look likely a country-level, so that make the "Never" prediction likely.

However, we can choose those as individuals and do fairly well.
Up to a certain point. Even if you are rowing like hell, if the ship has a hole, you are going down.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,935,395 times
Reputation: 19278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Well, we would have to:

1. Be willing to quit Oil.
2. Stop debt and paying interest.
3. Stop lying and cheating as a business practice.
4. Produce more than we consume.
#1 and #4 are closely related.

Tariffs and import duties are bad and cause diplomatic problems. The best solution is an inversely proportional personal tax on money not saved.

Someone making $100,000/year should be saving not less than $10,000 and if they save nothing, they should be assessed a tax penalty of $20,000 on top of the taxes they already owe.

Some people would lose jobs, but that's okay, because capital, cash and resources would be shifted to other enterprises that allow the US to produce something that can be sold on the world market, other than hamburgers.

Switching to rail by putting a tax on trucked items would also help. Rail would actually create more and better paying jobs than trucking, plus reduce oil consumption.

Tremendous cost savings could be realized by eliminating all regulatory financial laws. A corporations's SEC filings should list their liabilities and debts, including unfunded liabilities like pension plans, and the only asset that should be allowed to be declared is cash on hand. That will end all the clever accounting tricks and methods that cook the books so that a $200 Million loss becomes a $2 Billion profit.

The recession won't end anytime soon. The US will be in and out of recession for the next 4-5 years, before inflationary pressure really starts hitting around 2014-15 and then it'll essentially be a depression for the next 8-10 years.

When it's all said and done, it'll be a very different US, and not a wealthy one.
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Old 05-08-2010, 02:43 PM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,331,858 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
#1 and #4 are closely related.
Sure. IF we quit importing Oil and instead produced our own local renewable energy, trade would begin to balance and employment would quickly rise. But a lot of Corporate Energy folks who have bought and own the .gov would not be pleased.

Quote:
Tariffs and import duties are bad and cause diplomatic problems.
That is sort of an 8th grade pseudo-history level of things -- which is about equal to a typical US sourced MBA. Real deal is that tariffs are bad for net exporters (Like US during the Last Great Depression). Now that we are massively a Net Importer with high unemployment, for this Depression, an Import Tariff (which is even provided for in that silly US Constitution thingy), would be a Great Thing.

Quote:
The best solution is an inversely proportional personal tax on money not saved.
Right, right. Anything to tax people and not corporations. Especially no Taxes on Transnational Corporations.

Quote:
Someone making $100,000/year should be saving not less than $10,000 and if they save nothing, they should be assessed a tax penalty of $20,000 on top of the taxes they already owe.
In case you have not noticed we are presently giving tax bonuses to get folks to spend more?

Quote:
Some people would lose jobs, but that's okay, because capital, cash and resources would be shifted to other enterprises that allow the US to produce something that can be sold on the world market, other than hamburgers.
Yeah, some people would lose jobs. F-em anyway. Would bet the folks on the unemployment forum would enjoy this discussion.

How about instead we say f-the-Globaloney "World Market," and we produce stuff for US-here, right here? Yeah, that is just crazy talk . . . because who needs a Transnational Corporation to do that?

Quote:
Switching to rail by putting a tax on trucked items would also help. Rail would actually create more and better paying jobs than trucking, plus reduce oil consumption.
Electric Ground Transportation -- of any sort -- Train, Truck, Auto -- would reduce Oil use. Presently the rails are owned by Corporate Only interests that only serve themselves -- Not US.

Quote:
Tremendous cost savings could be realized by eliminating all regulatory financial laws. A corporations's SEC filings should list their liabilities and debts, including unfunded liabilities like pension plans, and the only asset that should be allowed to be declared is cash on hand. That will end all the clever accounting tricks and methods that cook the books so that a $200 Million loss becomes a $2 Billion profit.
Sure. Sure. Getting rid of Glass-Steagall sure saved US lots. And getting rid of Usury Limits saved folks tremendously, too. But this is getting fairly retarded.

Quote:

The recession won't end anytime soon. The US will be in and out of recession for the next 4-5 years, before inflationary pressure really starts hitting around 2014-15 and then it'll essentially be a depression for the next 8-10 years.

When it's all said and done, it'll be a very different US, and not a wealthy one.
Well, THAT part we agree on.

A few VERY wealthy and most of US in or at poverty.

Den Come de Revolution.

Burn, baby, burn.

But until then, we have Spill, Baby, Spill.

Last edited by Philip T; 05-08-2010 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 02:56 PM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,331,858 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
Up to a certain point. Even if you are rowing like hell, if the ship has a hole, you are going down.
Well, the overall survival model is to be building lifeboats, rather than dancing on deck of the sinking ship . . . .
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