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Old 06-28-2010, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,180,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX View Post
The government's purpose is to create equal opportunities for people, not equal outcomes. Socialists, Progressives, have an obsession with taking over the free-market and create policies to redistribute wealth.
Lets just use your argument for a second.

How is placing a person under disproportionate hardship not handicapping their opportunities? By raising taxes on the poor, you are taking food out of their mouth, turning their electricity off, and keeping their kids from good educations, and forcing them to turn to charity and government handouts or even crime. By raising taxes on the rich, you are keeping a 5th BMW out of their garage.

Even Milton Friedman, one of the most laissez faire economists to ever live proposed a negative income tax.

Its just plain BS to tax people who have little to no money after basic neccessities, especially at the rate of a rich person. Even the most right wing of economists can acknowledge that.

If the rich person wants to shift more of the tax burden to someone else, maybe he should pay his workers more.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,660,138 times
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The few really rich people I know obtained their initial wealth through a convenient inheritance of a few million dollars. Being reasonably intelligent people they reinvested the wealth and have become even wealthier. Their kids will start out with good educations and a lot of money to invest. Lucky them.

Maybe we could increase the number of wealthy people by taxing 100% of the inheritances over 5 million dollars and distribute the wealth to the really poor as money to be invested for their fortune. With a 5 million inheritance most level headed people could amass a considerable fortune.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:21 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,175,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The few really rich people I know obtained their initial wealth through a convenient inheritance of a few million dollars.
They are the exception. The overwhelming majority of millionaires got that way thru hard work over decades of time.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,180,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
They are the exception. The overwhelming majority of millionaires got that way thru hard work over decades of time.

Not any more. Generation X and Y are increasingly inheriting their wealth. In addition, inheritance is still the best way to the billionaire list currently
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,180,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
With a 5 million inheritance most level headed people could amass a considerable fortune.
Most level headed people dont even make that much in a lifetime. Over 45 years, that is an average of $111,111 a year. Even if you factored in some good investment payouts, its still way more then the average person will ever be working with.

So forget about turning it into wealth, 5 million should be enough to ensure a person never need to work a day in their life, and to me, that is plenty of money.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
188 posts, read 267,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Not any more. Generation X and Y are increasingly inheriting their wealth. In addition, inheritance is still the best way to the billionaire list currently
That's because every generation is cyclical. The generation that grew up during the great depression created their wealth through hard work, saving, and investing (and many were entrepreneurs as well). As these others generations inherit that wealth they squander it (i.e. belonging to fancy country clubs, vacation homes, etc) as they didn't understand how their parents built their wealth. The statistics show this so you can't argue it (even though I know it helps you sleep better) something like 67% of those that inherit millions end up spending it so their kids have only a fraction (or nothing) left to inherit. The free market naturally redistributes the money by people being stupid and worrying too much about their "status" instead of financial independence.

And what's this idea that we increase the taxes on the poor? Have you not seen our tax system? The rich pay well over twice as much, sometimes 3x as much (as a percentage), in taxes than do the poor. If you want your taxes to go down why don't you tell your spend happy politicians to cut spending. Oh but wait, you just want the "rich" (most of whom aren't even millionaires but just make a lot at their job) to be taxed upwards of 50%+ because they were in school for 5+ years longer than you, they put their own capital on the line to start their own businesses, and they worked countless 12+hr days....those are the people who should be punished? HAHAHAHAHA, this board is full of a bunch of people that probably belong in the "loony bin."

And about inheritance being the best way to the billionaire list...have you seen the 3 richest people in the world? Let me type them out for you, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Carlos Slim Helu. Carlos' dad immigrated to Mexico with nothing, started his own business and worked hard so his son could go to college. Then Carlos went on to become and engineer and is now the richest person in the world, through his own hard work and the work of his father. Bill Gates built his empire from scratch, his mom did have some connections but he was born into a middle class family. Warren Buffett started paying his own taxes at age 14, and the only help he got was his dad paid for college. He was already worth 100's of millions by the time his parents died and he inherited their money (which was less than $1 million).

Here's this for a novel idea, reward hard work and punish those that sit at home and want to live off the government. Imagine how much better our society would be. I can show you an example of what our society would look like...China. The Chinese students go to school (longer days than they do here in America), come home, do homework, then go to bed. Now why would they work so hard? I mean geez we just all want to have fun and live off the government, why don't they do the same? Because they can't, they don't have entitlements like we do here in America and they know if they want to succeed they better bust their butt.

Last edited by hskrfan2187; 06-28-2010 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:02 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,175,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Not any more. Generation X and Y are increasingly inheriting their wealth. In addition, inheritance is still the best way to the billionaire list currently
Source?

My info comes from the book Millionaire Next Door that surveyed millionaires. I have no idea about the billionaire list but I doubt that's who you were referring to as your rich friends.

Unless you can prove otherwise I call bs on any claim that most wealthy people inherited it, as it's counter to what I've read.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
188 posts, read 267,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Mostly financed by debt.....
Exactly, that was his point.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
188 posts, read 267,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Ugh.....conservatives have no grasp of marginal utility.

Very simply put, the $7500 puts the guy making 50k into much more financial hardship then the guy making $5m with $750,000. This is the whole purpose of a progressive income tax.

The only thing a flat tax would do would significantly increase the taxes paid by those who can already barely afford to survive, and give a tax break to people who have more money then they know what to do with.
Then don't tax the first $30,000 of income...problem solved. Cut government spending and implement a flat tax of 15% above $30,000 of income.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
188 posts, read 267,301 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
I would have no problem paying huge taxes if I were wealthy. A man only needs so much. After 100k a year net income, I would probably give away most of anything else to people who actually needed it.



Actually sales tax is regressive and largely shouldered by poor people.



Rich people dont create jobs, demand for product does. Rich people simply own all the means to deliver the product.



1. Fleet sales are usually handled as a completely separate division in a car dealership.

2. Fleet sales are a fraction of total volume moved by your average car dealership.



You dont have any answer. Thats the thing. Conservatives have two reactions.

1. Raise taxes on the lower classes and lower taxes on the higher classes to make it "fair".

Then if you realize that isnt really fair, since it is raising taxes on people who can already ill afford lifes neccessities

2. Throw up arms and claim to not know whats right, but to know what is wrong. Its so easy to claim that X isnt fair without suggesting any solution. Its what being a conservative is all about.
What are you talking about? You really are a "random dude" aren't you? When has anybody said anything about raising taxes on the poor? Conservatives believe in "enjoying the fruits of your labor," that is FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!! Let me repeat that so you understand it, "ENJOYING THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR," FOR EVERYBODY OF EVERY SOCIAL CLASS/STANDING!! Right now we punish those that labor harder/longer hours and those that put their own capital on the line for greater prosperity. I'm sorry you don't understand it, because then you would be able to create something for yourself and your family. And from some of your previous posts, you should be investing a nice sum right now based on how "frugal" you say you are. Working 40 hrs a week at even $9/hr will leave you with $300 or so each month to invest, assuming you're as frugal as you say you are. And I know, because I did it. Doing this over 3 or 4 decades (assuming you started in your late teens or early 20's) will allow you to retire a millionaire.
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