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Old 10-03-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,807 posts, read 19,873,737 times
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I disagree with the above posters #4 paragraph.

People who pay in to SS over four decades are paid based upon their earnings.

One person may work 50% of the time and will collect accordingly.

Another will be gamefully employed the entire time and will have some money saved for their future. Just because they have this money does not reduce any benifits they receive. After all...they paid in more then the other person.

I am of a different time period then what my dad went thru and I get double SS of what he got when he retired. It is all a matter of what was paid into the fund.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:26 PM
 
3,734 posts, read 4,854,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Congress is now in the process of extending unemployment benefits until after the end of the year. Is unemployment becoming the new welfare? While it makes sense to have a program to help workers in times of unemployment, when is the time to end it? 2 years seems way too long. Many people are just going to accept the fact that the economy is not returning to where it was and either accept lower paying jobs or become retrained to do something else. The burden of unemployment and a food stamp program with nearly 40 million recipients in addition to 2 wars are driving up deficits at an alarming rate. Politicians are bankrupting the country to buy votes. It is time to stop throwing good money after bad and begin to do what is best for the country as a whole.
Merriam Webster defines welfare as aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need. So yes, unemployment is a form of welfare.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,779 posts, read 22,111,286 times
Reputation: 9040
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Congress is now in the process of extending unemployment benefits until after the end of the year. Is unemployment becoming the new welfare? While it makes sense to have a program to help workers in times of unemployment, when is the time to end it? 2 years seems way too long. Many people are just going to accept the fact that the economy is not returning to where it was and either accept lower paying jobs or become retrained to do something else. The burden of unemployment and a food stamp program with nearly 40 million recipients in addition to 2 wars are driving up deficits at an alarming rate. Politicians are bankrupting the country to buy votes. It is time to stop throwing good money after bad and begin to do what is best for the country as a whole.
Over the past decade Congress and Big Business have destroyed the manufacturing base of this country. We can't have an economy based on shuffling papers or flipping burgers. We have to produce products here in the USA with American labor. Until then we must keep our labor force from being thrown out of their homes and starving. It's not welfare, it's investing in America
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:46 PM
 
Location: US
22,555 posts, read 21,385,378 times
Reputation: 17636
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Congress is now in the process of extending unemployment benefits until after the end of the year. Is unemployment becoming the new welfare? While it makes sense to have a program to help workers in times of unemployment, when is the time to end it? 2 years seems way too long. Many people are just going to accept the fact that the economy is not returning to where it was and either accept lower paying jobs or become retrained to do something else. The burden of unemployment and a food stamp program with nearly 40 million recipients in addition to 2 wars are driving up deficits at an alarming rate. Politicians are bankrupting the country to buy votes. It is time to stop throwing good money after bad and begin to do what is best for the country as a whole.
Unemployment benefits is the new welfare. You are correct! We have an employee who worked a couple months and was caught drinking Jack Daniels on the job, so he was fired. I now received a letter in the mail from the government saying he wants to claim unemployment from us. It's sad that there are so many *******s in the system that ruin it for the ones who actually do need it or deserve it. Unfortunately, the number abusing the program is too large. The entire system is too big. I have another ex employee who quit our business after working 1-2 years to work somewhere else. She recently quit that job after a few months because she didn't like the people she was working with. We are still friends, so she told us she is getting unemployment benefits through our business. She QUIT her job here and she QUIT her new job, yet she can receive unemployment benefits!?
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:34 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,576,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
I get so fed-up, with posters who have a problem with people collecting state, and/or federal aid! Unemployment benefits, are collected by those who become unemployed, through no fault of their own.

Besides, when the unemployed were working, they were paying into the Unemployment benefits system, through being taxed. To add insult to injury, the unemployed are taxed AGAIN, on the benefits that they collected, when it comes time to file their tax returns!

Welfare payments aren't enough for anybody to support themselves, and their families on. So it's not liked they're getting big bucks. And, not all Welfare receipients, are women of color who have lots of children. More whites are on Welfare, than people of color!

Those who collect Social Security, don't always need it. More than ever, seniors were doing well, before they retired. I know that there are many poor seniors, that desperately need their SS benefits. But those seniors who are affluent, still collect Soical Security benefits, regardless of need. And guess what, our tax dollars go to pay for Social Security, for many of these well-off seniors! But I don't see any of you getting upset about that!

So, the harsh judgements on those collecting Unemployment or Welfare payments, needs to stop. These people have fallen on hard times, and need a safety net to survive. Without Welfare and Unemployment benefits, many more people would be starving, and out in the streets, than there are now! And it's not their fault, that our economy is not providing enough jobs for everybody.
The issue that I have with that point of view is that it assumes people are helpless creatures that can't function without all these "entitlements" and of course the all seeing, all caring, all feeling hand of leftist politicians guiding their helpless lives.

To me that type of negative thinking is what keeps people in that depressive cycle and often they end up mixed up in drugs or crime because they have nothing else to look forward to or to do everyday.

I have several relatives that play the unemployment and disability system like a fiddle and it has done squat for them as human beings, except only to have a hand out and not be productive people.

Sure I am compassionate enough to understand that yep there are disabled people that need help. That yep people lose their jobs and sometimes need some help to tide them over.

But years and years of welfare and unemployment checks, sorry I am not on board for that and any politician in my districts that votes for that crap gets the handle pulled against them.

Social security as I recall if you pay in, you get a benefit based on what you paid in. I'm sorry but you are not scalping 15% tax off of me in self employment tax only to hand it over to some able bodied bum that didn't work and is now poor in retirement. Too bad, so sad.
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:43 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,576,985 times
Reputation: 7668
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Unemployment benefits is the new welfare. You are correct! We have an employee who worked a couple months and was caught drinking Jack Daniels on the job, so he was fired. I now received a letter in the mail from the government saying he wants to claim unemployment from us. It's sad that there are so many *******s in the system that ruin it for the ones who actually do need it or deserve it. Unfortunately, the number abusing the program is too large. The entire system is too big. I have another ex employee who quit our business after working 1-2 years to work somewhere else. She recently quit that job after a few months because she didn't like the people she was working with. We are still friends, so she told us she is getting unemployment benefits through our business. She QUIT her job here and she QUIT her new job, yet she can receive unemployment benefits!?
I think a lot of this depends on the state and what the rules are. If I remember when I lived in Alabama, if you quit you could not claim benefits.

Where I live now in PA we have an absurd system. I could be wrong on the exact semantics, but basically you can go on welfare for 2 years at a time. Then you have to work for a certain # of months before you can go back on so they work that and then quit and it's back into the system.

Plus these professional bums get subsidized housing, food stamps which seems to keep them plenty fat and there are also programs for things like free cell phones. And they usually sell drugs on the side to earn some more cash.

As mentioned I have several relatives in PA that work jobs and basically angle themselves into getting laid off or some other situation to get unemployment benefits or they'll have some back injury or some other ailment to get disability. In their working lives I have known them, they probably are really working less than 50% of the time over the years, if that.

Yes I am for giving a "helping hand"? You bet.

Paying professional bums out of my pocket? Get stuffed.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:05 AM
 
613 posts, read 893,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I think a lot of this depends on the state and what the rules are. If I remember when I lived in Alabama, if you quit you could not claim benefits.

Where I live now in PA we have an absurd system. I could be wrong on the exact semantics, but basically you can go on welfare for 2 years at a time. Then you have to work for a certain # of months before you can go back on so they work that and then quit and it's back into the system.

Plus these professional bums get subsidized housing, food stamps which seems to keep them plenty fat and there are also programs for things like free cell phones. And they usually sell drugs on the side to earn some more cash.

As mentioned I have several relatives in PA that work jobs and basically angle themselves into getting laid off or some other situation to get unemployment benefits or they'll have some back injury or some other ailment to get disability. In their working lives I have known them, they probably are really working less than 50% of the time over the years, if that.

Yes I am for giving a "helping hand"? You bet.

Paying professional bums out of my pocket? Get stuffed.
The system needs changed not your relatives. It's obvious that what their doing is legal. Change the system so they can't do it. I myself am retired and would have never chosen to live that kinda life. But they obviously like the lifestyle of working 50% of their life. Who are you to tell them how to live their life? I would tell ya to "Get stuffed."
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:07 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,654,046 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Over the past decade Congress and Big Business have destroyed the manufacturing base of this country. We can't have an economy based on shuffling papers or flipping burgers.
This is absolutely correct, but we need to take it one step farther, who allowed Congress to become the corrupt institution it is? That would be the American people who were too lazy to fulfill their civic responsibilities. As a people we are more than willing to accept the benefits of living in a Republic, but do not want to be burdened with the responsibilities that go along with it. We must blame ourselves for our complacency, and not looking out for our own best interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
We have to produce products here in the USA with American labor. Until then we must keep our labor force from being thrown out of their homes and starving. It's not welfare, it's investing in America
First it will be a long, long time and a major change in the mindset of the voters before we even begin to rebuild our manufacturing base.
Second the people need to face reality and begin to accept the jobs they are now turning their noses up at. Things have fundamentally changed and that is reality. Entitlement programs that are paid for with higher deficits and more debt are a recipe for disaster. Those debts have to be serviced and when interest rates inevitably increase, the taxes on workers will have to increase to pay them. Make no mistake; the future holds huge tax increases on working people at the Federal, State, and Local levels. The question is how bad we are going to allow the situation to get.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:55 AM
 
1,296 posts, read 2,069,755 times
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Some of you have been harping on those, who do abuse the system. However, there are only a small percentage of people, who do that. The vast majority of those who collect Unemployment and Welfare, really need it. So I don't think that it should be cut-off, just because a few people take advantage of it.

What we REALLY need now, is a monetary policy that will encourage full employment. I'm old to remember when that was the case, during the 60s. We need to bring back unions, and empower them. In the 50s and 60s, unions were powerful, and blue collar workers made good wages, and could support their families. And today, we need unions for the service workers, and white collar professionals too. We also need to abolish the employment-at-will doctrine, that has given employers carte blanch to dismiss workers, at the drop of a hat. Last but not least, we need to stop exporting jobs, to other countries.

So, all of these strategies could reduce the rate of unemployment, and make working for a living solid, and with living wages, so that workers can support their families. Then, we wouldn't have people relying so heavily on Unemployment, and Welfare payments, to survive.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:20 AM
 
5,416 posts, read 10,370,931 times
Reputation: 4503
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
Some of you have been harping on those, who do abuse the system. However, there are only a small percentage of people, who do that. The vast majority of those who collect Unemployment and Welfare, really need it. So I don't think that it should be cut-off, just because a few people take advantage of it.

What we REALLY need now, is a monetary policy that will encourage full employment. I'm old to remember when that was the case, during the 60s. We need to bring back unions, and empower them. In the 50s and 60s, unions were powerful, and blue collar workers made good wages, and could support their families. And today, we need unions for the service workers, and white collar professionals too. We also need to abolish the employment-at-will doctrine, that has given employers carte blanch to dismiss workers, at the drop of a hat. Last but not least, we need to stop exporting jobs, to other countries.

So, all of these strategies could reduce the rate of unemployment, and make working for a living solid, and with living wages, so that workers can support their families. Then, we wouldn't have people relying so heavily on Unemployment, and Welfare payments, to survive.
All true . . . but . . . who would be harmed and who would have profits reduced by going back to a country "of, by, and for the people?"

Transnational Corporations and their Banker Backers are making a KILLING on what has been going the last 20 to 30 years. They exploit the third world, ship their crap here, run it all on (now .gov backed) credit crack and masses of (now under-educated, un/under-employed) working (or now non-working) slobs of America lap the crap up like pigs at slop-time.

This is a pretty ugly (and very intentional) mess.
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