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LOL! Aren't you offering (non-constructive) criticism of homeschooling? Why bring it up if you're not part of that "system"?
Nope. I'm not trying to tell you how to homeschool nor am I telling you you are doing it wrong.
I'm, simply, stating that I'm neither intelligent enough or learned enough to replace all 40 some teachers my children will have during their formal education. It's enough for me to master one subject. I'm not smart enough to master them all or arrogant enough to think I'm the best candidate to teach them all to my kids or qualified to pick the best candidate. If I were, maybe I'd homeschool but I am smart enough to know I'm not so I don't. Good thing for my kids. It would suck to have a parent who only thought they were that good but it turned out they weren't if you were homeschooled by them.
I worry about my own curriculum. I don't get involved in how homeschooler's homeschool. That's their business. My business is making sure my kids and my students get the best education they can. I don't have time to criticize how homeschoolers homeschool. I know that I'd have to be a lot smarter and more learned than I am to even entertain the thought. I also think school is good in that it provides a non parent controlled peer environment for kids. One of my jobs as a parent is to help my kids take steps away from me. That's one of the harder jobs and having a school environment makes that job easier.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-19-2010 at 01:14 PM..
Nope. I'm not trying to tell you how to homeschool nor am I telling you you are doing it wrong.
I'm, simply, stating that I'm neither intelligent enough or learned enough to replace all 40 some teachers my children will have during their formal education. It's enough for me to master one subject. I'm not smart enough to master them all or arrogant enough to think I'm the best candidate to teach them all to my kids or qualified to pick the best candidate. If I were, maybe I'd homeschool but I am smart enough to know I'm not so I don't. Good thing for my kids. It would suck to have a parent who only thought they were that good but it turned out they weren't if you were homeschooled by them.
Oh, I thought you were talkign about homeschoolers in general. My apologies. Thankfully, I know that I'm smart enough to homeschool.
That is your option. I've chosen to stay in the system because I will not cheat my children out of the cummulative knowledge of the 40 some teachers they will have in addition to me. I figure they have me and my teaching either way. I see no reason to limit their learning to only what I know or only those I choose to hire. I'm hardly an expert in everything and I'd have to be to make the call on everything. I also don't think I have it all figured out, which I'd have to believe to opt out. I'd, at least, have to believe I'm better than all the teachers my kids would have otherwise and I'm just not that arrogant. Plus I think school is about more than just what is taught but that's just me.
Every time homeschooling comes up in this forum you make a point to call homeschoolers, "arrogant". I'm sorry that you don't understand how homeschooling works but can you please refrain from name calling?
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I do not think the current system "Jades" kids. I think it's our most workable answer for the task at hand for the time being. Someone may come up with something better in the future or maybe they won't. Maybe they'll find that, for all it's faults, this really is they best way we have to accomplish the task at hand.
Why can't we look at how other countries who are outperforming us are doing things. Students in Sweden and Finland spend much less time in school then US students and still manage to outperform US students in reading, math and science. By looking at how those countries treat education we could improve education for our students and possibly save money too. We could look to other time tested educational methods such as Montessori and provide it as an alternative to the more traditional methods of education. It's clear that we are not doing the best we can do with our current educational system.
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If you're not part of the system, why argue about it's need to change? Kind of silly to offer criticism (note I did not use the word constructive as a qualifier) of a system you choose to avoid.
I'm also choosing to opt out of the system but I still care what happens in public education because I care about our society as a whole. As a taxpayer I would like to see my taxes put to better use when it comes to providing education to my fellow citizens.
Oh, I thought you were talkign about homeschoolers in general. My apologies. Thankfully, I know that I'm smart enough to homeschool.
Out of curiosity, how do you know?
I know what it takes to master just one subject and I know I don't have what it takes to master them all, at least not before my great grand kids graduate from high school...
I know that I'm smart enough to homeschool because I actually know what's needed to homeschool, LOL. You don't think you're smart enough because you have no idea what homeschooling actually entails, so you assume that it's a huge, scary thing. It's not.
Do you know everything there is to know about chemistry? What if a student asked you a question that you didn't know the answer to? What would you do? Would you shrug and say "idunno"? Would you say, "We're not covering that in class this year"? Would you make up some BS answer? Or would you say "That's an excellent question. Let me look into it and get back to you tomorrow/next week/whenever you think you'll be able to get the answer by"? My guess (well, my hope!) is that you'd go and find out the answer for the student. That's exactly what I do if I'm asked about something that I don't know the answer to.
Now, let's turn it around a little. You have said before that English and grammar are not your strong suits. Let's say that you are mentoring a student who needs a little extra help. Say she asks you a question about an English assignment. Assume you don't know the answer. What would you do? One of two options would work: You could say, "I don't know, but I will find out for you," or you could say, "I really don't know much about this. Mrs. Jones, your English teacher, would know, though. Why don't you ask her if she can meet with you after school for a few minutes to go over this?" If the student protested that Mrs. Jones explained things in a way that made no sense, you might then say, "Well, the librarian, Mr. Shields, knows a lot about literature. I bet he could help you. He's here every day after school."
As a teacher, you are a facilitator, not a god. I'm sure that at times one of your students throws something at you that you are unsure of in the moment, whether it is pertaining to chemistry or not. If you are smart enough to find the resources to answer the question or to direct your student to the appropriate person/resource, then you're more than smart enough to homeschool.
You don't have to believe it; that's all well and good. Since I've been doing this for years, though, I can assure you that it is true.
Answering an inquisitive student with a response of "go look it up" isn't much help either...
There are many aspects of education which are best learned in a social setting, with a group of your peers and a knowledgeable instructor who has spent years teaching the subject. And aside from the knowledge gap, kids who are home-schooled are missing out on the social aspects of school, which include following instructions, meeting standards, learning to make friends, and learning to function in the real world.
It's one thing to have your mother say "Oh my son, he's such a good student"; it's quite another to have the same verified by an impartial observer, such as a teacher.
Answering an inquisitive student with a response of "go look it up" isn't much help either...
There are many aspects of education which are best learned in a social setting, with a group of your peers and a knowledgeable instructor who has spent years teaching the subject. And aside from the knowledge gap, kids who are home-schooled are missing out on the social aspects of school, which include following instructions, meeting standards, learning to make friends, and learning to function in the real world.
It's one thing to have your mother say "Oh my son, he's such a good student"; it's quite another to have the same verified by an impartial observer, such as a teacher.
You are right. Sitting in a classroom of children all born in the same year and living in the same zipcode is much better training for the "real world" than actually being out and about in the real world.
Answering an inquisitive student with a response of "go look it up" isn't much help either...
I once had a teacher who when asked a question would say, "how can you find out?" He'd then gesture to the books on the shelf or offer to write a pass to the library. He never gave us answers to anything and I learned so much in his class. I remember feeling very frustrated on the first day when he showed the class a table covered in rocks and asked us to identify them. We had no idea what he was talking about and kept asking questions over and over again. He'd give hints on where we could find this information and we slowly but surely figured it out and by the end of the week everyone in class knew the difference between igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary rocks and could identify them by sight. It was the best class and he was the most amazing teacher.
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And aside from the knowledge gap, kids who are home-schooled are missing out on the social aspects of school, which include following instructions, meeting standards, learning to make friends, and learning to function in the real world.
Knowledge gap? Homeschooler's typically score in thee 80th and 90th percentile in standardized tests and do better then their publicly schooled peers.HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling
Kids don't need to go to school in order to follow instructions, meet standards, make friends or function in the real world. Homeschoolers don't live in bubbles cut of from civilization. They live in the real world and interact with others in that real world just like everyone else.
You are right. Sitting in a classroom of children all born in the same year and living in the same zipcode is much better training for the "real world" than actually being out and about in the real world.
Right , because 10-year olds are world travellers. Sure.
I once had a teacher who when asked a question would say, "how can you find out?" He'd then gesture to the books on the shelf or offer to write a pass to the library. He never gave us answers to anything and I learned so much in his class. I remember feeling very frustrated on the first day when he showed the class a table covered in rocks and asked us to identify them. We had no idea what he was talking about and kept asking questions over and over again. He'd give hints on where we could find this information and we slowly but surely figured it out and by the end of the week everyone in class knew the difference between igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary rocks and could identify them by sight. It was the best class and he was the most amazing teacher.
Knowledge gap? Homeschooler's typically score in thee 80th and 90th percentile in standardized tests and do better then their publicly schooled peers.HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling
Kids don't need to go to school in order to follow instructions, meet standards, make friends or function in the real world. Homeschoolers don't live in bubbles cut of from civilization. They live in the real world and interact with others in that real world just like everyone else.
Once again, I must point out that demographics alone would predict that homeschoolers would score high. The fact they do only shows that demographic predictions of student success work. It speaks nothing to the effectiveness of homeschooling. There is no proof that these kids wouldn't have scored just as well or better in a public school.
Both of my kids score above the 90th precentile. That has more to do with demographics than anything else. Homeschoolers are, disproportionatly, middle class, two parent families where the parents are involved in their children's educations. If you look at students who continue to graduate from homeschooling you, further, limit the field to those for whom homeschooling was a good fit because those for whom it wasn't quit long ago and sent their kids back to public school (I can name three families that did this and now blame the schools for their children's struggles ).
Unfortunately, the data for schools is not separated out so that you can look at kids from middle class, two parent households where the parents are involved in their educations. This is the demographic you need to compare homeschoolers to before you can declare homeschooling does anything at all. All this data shows is that if you take a group of kids who have demographics on their side, they do as well as expected when homeschooled. It DOES NOT mean homeschooling accomplished anything that could not have been accomplished with traditional schooling.
My kids come from the same demographic that homeschools and, surprise, surprise, they score in the upper range for homeschooled kids in spite of traditional schooling not being a great fit for either of them (they learn to adapt which, IMO, is a positive for traditional schooling). All it proves is demographics are a pretty good indicator of student success. Children from middle class, two parent families, where the parents are involved in their educations do very well in school.
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