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Old 10-06-2010, 05:44 AM
 
239 posts, read 894,858 times
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Has anyone been watching the CNN reports on TV about the problem with bullies in schools? Interesting!

One thing they reported that hit me was the fact that in many school districts it is against the rules to defend yourself if someone assults you in school. According to the twisted logic of modern school administrators if a school yard bully attacks a kid on campus the person being attacked is wrong if they fight back! They will get in as much trouble as the kid who did the inital attack if they fight back and defend themselves. Is this crazy or not?

Last edited by The Outcast; 10-06-2010 at 06:51 AM..
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,756,720 times
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School yard bully was considered a difficult personality that needed understanding. I understood that he needed to be hurt or he would not stop. I hurt him. I got detention, he got broken ribs.

I think the entire idea of not fighting back is wrong. It part of the entire let the authorities protect you but of course they never will.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:16 AM
 
2,634 posts, read 2,675,948 times
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This has always been the rule even since I was a kid. This is not news.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:24 AM
 
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This is discussed regularly in the Parenting forum. Those of us who have dealt with this personally are mocked by those who believe that their children haven't been bullied because somehow the bullies know their kids will fight back. Their posts reflect the attitudes of the parents of the bullies we have encountered.

Bullies know that a child that will defend themselves will be in equal or more significant trouble than themselves. It takes a lot of work to get around the privacy laws that protect the bullies in school. Those same laws do not protect the victims.

Last year, for instance, my daughter was attacked, viciously and repeatedly by a boy in her class. After several months of being told that my daughter was exaggerating the problem, he attacked her in front of a large group of students and several teachers. When we got to the school, some of the other children who had witnessed the attack, approached us in the office while we were waiting for our daughter and were telling us what happened. At that point, I discovered that the paper trail the teacher had been assuring me she was making, did not exist. Luckily for my daughter, I had kept the few emails we had shared (the rest was in person and on the phone). I pulled my daughter out of school and emailed the superintendent, principal and teacher, letting them know I would be disenrolling my daughter. It's a long story, a long battle, over the course of 24 hours. (With after effects for months), but I did get him removed from the classroom and someone was hired to follow him around the school at all times THAT DAY, for the remainder of the school year. But the school report on the subject reads that the woman was hired to protect the child from ME. It turned out the child's mother was on the school board and the father is a teacher in the district. The child had violently attacked other children in the other two years, but those children were moved to another school - an option they gave me, but I refused, right away. I felt the attacker should bear the weight, not his victim.

I also learned another valuable lesson - don't give the schools a chance to "handle things". If you get a call, letting you know that your child has been attacked or your child tells you a story about being attacked, call the police and file a report. Then follow up at the school. Insist. YOU are your child's advocate - no matter what the teacher and principal say, they may NOT be handling it in a way that is beneficial for YOUR child.

BTW, my daughter was 7 last year. This was second grade. He hurled heavy books at her head, whipped her with zippered jacket in front of a PE teacher and the final time, he jumped on her back while she was standing in line and began beating her, another surprise attack, she never had a chance to do more than protect herself. The last happened less than 2 feet away from SEVERAL staff members - one of whom had SWORN in an email that she would keep the boy away from my child and that I needed to trust that she loved my daughter and would protect her. Before checking to see if she was okay, they left her lying on the ground for more than 15 minutes while they attempted to catch the boy on the playground.

The parents of the boy refused to meet with us. I found out his identity through my child. The parent's last name was very common. It was months later that I discovered his parent's positions in the school. Their response? Well, after fighting the school (and losing, thanks to me and my threats of lawsuits - not just against the school but individually to each staff member who knew anything about her attacks and the previous years' attacks, plus a very successful email campaign) the "learning challenged" label and being removed from the typical classroom environment, they learned that if I dropped the charges, he could return to the classroom. Through the principal, they sent a message offering to buy my daughter a teddy bear, if I would just back down and realize that their child was "just a little boy".

Sick, sick people. The parents of his victim in his first grade class not only moved schools, but received a 'significant' cash settlement when they signed a piece of paper saying their daughter made the whole thing up. I wonder what lesson those parents taught their children. My daughter learned that I will "go the mattresses" for her, and will not back down, no matter what.

Last edited by sskkc; 10-06-2010 at 06:29 AM.. Reason: left it unfinished, too much to tell
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
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My son defended himself once and got 1 day suspension while the other kid who hit first got 2 days suspension. Not much difference in the punishment and I tried to stick up for my son at school.
I told my son to continue defend yourself if you are hit first..I didn't care what they told him at school. This was one case where I didn't want my son to just stand there and take it.

There should be ZERO punishment for physically defending yourself when it can be proven that you were indeed defending yourself against someone who struck first.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:50 PM
 
10,624 posts, read 26,724,400 times
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That was the philosophy when I was a kid in elementary school during the 1980s. I think the idea was that you're not supposed to be able to control yourself even in the face of a potentially violent bully. My dad always told me that if someone ever hit or bullied me that I should hit back, even if it meant a suspension. (I never did; maybe it's because I'm a girl, but I was never involved in any physical fights.) I don't know what we'll tell my son; probably that if possible he should just leave the situation and not get dragged down to their level, and that there's nothing wrong with just turning your back and walking away. If it comes down to it, though, and the other kid refuses to back down, then there's nothing wrong with the judicious use of self-defense. People, including kids, have a right to defend themselves.

Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 10-06-2010 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Midwest
9,398 posts, read 11,147,212 times
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This proves once again that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The fuzzy-thinking do-gooder I'm-the-smartest lefties who initiate these policies actually believe a lot of this BS.
UNTIL they are jumped by someone, or perhaps there's a riot downtown. Then they go running for their armed friends.

If I had a kid in this type school, he/she would be in judo or jiu jitsu classes for the duration.
Take down. Neutralize. No strikes necessary.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,254 posts, read 64,332,595 times
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Well, the obvious reason is that who really knows who started what? So both kids will be punished.

I'd still tell my kid to always defend him/herself. F the school suspension. All that 'it's on your record' crap they tried to scare us with is total b.s.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Midwest
9,398 posts, read 11,147,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
School yard bully was considered a difficult personality that needed understanding. I understood that he needed to be hurt or he would not stop. I hurt him. I got detention, he got broken ribs.

I think the entire idea of not fighting back is wrong. It part of the entire let the authorities protect you but of course they never will.
Good work, Greg. You had an early understanding of how to negotiate with the Russians.
The punk got exactly what he deserved.
Have you checked to see which prison he's in today?

Legally, the police have absolutely no obligation to defend us. As sskkc details, "authorities" obviously have no obligation either, even a 7-year-old girl being picked on by a boy. What a coward, he will grow up to be a good inmate somewhere.
When I was in school, some guy would have caught him somewhere and beaten him to a pulp for picking on a girl. Obviously times have changed. For the worse.

These same "wise persons" say no one should have a gun to defend himself. But the police are not obligated to defend you, and by the time they finish the donuts and get there, the bad guys are hightailing it down the road in their stolen car.

The Connecticut doctor case is tragically illustrative. Cops got notice. Took their time. Horrifying events took place. Cops took their time.
Two Irish cops entering the house immediately probably would have resolved the issue satisfactorily.

CT, BTW, is a very anti-gun, anti-self defense state. I don't know the particulars of the entire case, but the old better tried by 12 than carried by 6 is something that lawyers and many others have told me over the years.

That man will be living a PTSD nightmare the rest of his life. Because two sick evil bullying thugs broke in and he didn't have the means to end the discussion immediately. Nauseating.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:17 PM
 
853 posts, read 4,035,447 times
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Bullies must love this rule, bully someone, and then cause detentions for all, yay!
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