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you can NEVER teach TOO MUCH MATH. Thats the dumbest thing Ive heard all week. How many math majors are poor and cant find a job because they have math degrees? None. They dont exist. Math is the language of everything that matters. Sure culture is nice too, but one can live a fruitful, well managed, safe and balanced life because he/she has logic skills to reduce and simplify almost any situation in order to make the wiser decision. Economics, finance, risk management, entrepreneurship, software engineering, engineering the list goes on. All very high starting salaries, life security, and very high retirement salaries. The math major will no doubt be the richest and happiest of all his/her college friends. The math major will never have to be a customer service rep, a waiter, sales rep, worry about bills etc.
I have 2 friends that were math majors and they are very very very successful and under 35. Nieth of which are nerdy geeky or the other sterotypes. Theyre just smart.
Anyone can do it out of high school, its all about how hard you want to work. It will be very hard for most people, but once you are done, the job you land will be worth it. And life will be sweet. Too much math, that guy needs to be muzzled.
I don't disagree that they need all the exposure they can get. The disagreement I have is pushing more complex maths on younger and younger kids. As has been bandied about here ad nauseum, constructivist math programs are not only turning many kids off from math in general IMHO, they are also causing math-phobia in the first place.
My take on this article is that this professor is making a point that there has been "much ado" about "critical thinking skills" and how it seems that math has cornered the market on developing those which is something that he doesn't believe is really necessary. I agree with him. All subjects teach critical thinking skills and logic to some extent or another. I can't tell you how many kids I've watched over the years (if left to their own devices) have used critical thinking skills to get something accomplished, and a few of them have not been particularly adept at math.
LA in our area, is being tied in with reading (which is also being tied in with spelling) in the younger grades. In other words, they're trying to "work smarter, not harder" in the sense that they are trying to expose them to harder work at a younger age.
Okay, I'll buy that for 50 cents; however, the end result of much of that as near as I can tell, is a generation who doesn't know the difference between "there, they're, and their" or "lose and loose" (and not just one or two goofs as is human either - consistently).
Spelling as a single subject goes away completely by 6th grade here. I find "technology" as a lame excuse to not exercise the brain by learning how to spell correctly. To me, the idea that kids are so much more capable than we give them credit for may be a noble cause (and very true in some cases) but not particularly realistic for the general population. There are far too many factors involved besides school.
Personally, I understand why people would want a longer year because of what's being taught now. I don't agree with it because I truly believe that summer vacation has value. That's neither here nor there and off topic, but I certainly think we've gone a wee bit overboard with the cramming of info into our kids before they are old enough to grasp it.
I also base this on personal experience since I forced myself to attend an Algebra class when I was 25 years old. I got an A out of pure contempt and stubborness, but the point is, had I not been so disgusted with "New Math" at a very early age, I'd have probably learned to enjoy it in the first place. I see history repeating itself daily with not only my own kids, but others as well. And as an aside, I did really grow to enjoy prealgebra after the book hit the wall a couple of times.
You KNOW I'm ANTI constructivist math. I'm referring to going farther in math not math pull downs. IMO, we need to get the basics down before bringing in higher level math. That's should be the focus of the early years. Once you have the foundation built, then take them to new heights.
I think if we teach kids to be successful in math, early, they'll enjoy math more when they're older.
I agree. In graduate school I was literally harassed and badgered into doing complex financial math that had nothing to do with my major. The concepts are okay. However, I don't use it now nor was I interested in it nor have I witnessed anyone else using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696
I love math. I even went through calculus 3 in college, but I see no reason to have done so other than my enjoyment of math. The only math I use in my day to day life is keeping a running tab in my head when shopping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_22
A professor of mathematics at the University of Illinois wrote an interesting opinion piece in Saturday's Washington post, arguing that contrary to conventional wisdom, educational institutions in the United States are teaching more math than warranted and questioning the utility of learning advanced math for most people.
I personally enjoy math, believe strongly in its mind stretching properties, and will encourage my kids to take as much of it as possible. Nonetheless, I found the professor's opinion thought provoking, well written, and certainly worthy of consideration.
I am curious to hear others' reactions, and I would encourage folks to actually read the piece before responding. The link is below.
We should encourage a system for math lovers to choose their mathematical path so they can be nurtured in high school and in college. Then they will be ready for work.
Students with different aptitudes should choose their own paths. Instead of this crap system we have now. Well, what does it matter, since every job is being off shored. Practically everybody with a decent education will be cleaning toilets and scrubbing dishes anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
You KNOW I'm ANTI constructivist math. I'm referring to going farther in math not math pull downs. IMO, we need to get the basics down before bringing in higher level math. That's should be the focus of the early years. Once you have the foundation built, then take them to new heights.
I think if we teach kids to be successful in math, early, they'll enjoy math more when they're older.
Why, because it expands their minds. Do you REALLY want to live in a society where people ONLY study what they will do for a living? Do you realize that by doing this we would actually go BACKWARDS educationally. Much of education is exposure to ideas, concepts, ways of thinking. One of the most important things I learned in college was to look at issues from many different perspectives. I think there is a GREAT need for this in our society and not enough people learn how to do this because they are so focused on 2+2. Just think how much more reasonable our society would be if people could see things from other's perspective.
Exactly. A lot of people today want jobs where they can easily follow a manual. I'm sorry, but there was a reason back in the day why certain kids got pushed into the vocational direction. It was because their superiors realized they lacked the critical thinking/intellectual capacities to do well in college. Now we have people on here saying that we need to send more kids to the vocations. Riiiggghtt. I'm not sending any child of mine with a 4.0 GPA to plumber school. It's not because I think he/she is too good to be a plumber. I just realize I'd be handcuffing their abilities with a menial, follow the instructions to a T, type job.
Not everyone is going to be able to do math, no matter how much tutoring, and time they spend on it. My daughter is like this, she just does not get "it". In HS, Algebra has been the bane of my life, trying to get her passed this class, Some kids just don't get math....
I am dealing with the same issue. Math is hell for me. In high school I had trouble with it and now in college I'm having trouble with it. I too think we take too much math. Most math we won't even need to use after college is over.
We should encourage a system for math lovers to choose their mathematical path so they can be nurtured in high school and in college. Then they will be ready for work.
Students with different aptitudes should choose their own paths. Instead of this crap system we have now. Well, what does it matter, since every job is being off shored. Practically everybody with a decent education will be cleaning toilets and scrubbing dishes anyway.
...or moving off shore.. At the rate we're going, educated people may become one of our exports. It IS one of Michigan's exports. Might be the next big export for the U.S.
lol and you think I want to move to China or India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
...or moving off shore.. At the rate we're going, educated people may become one of our exports. It IS one of Michigan's exports. Might be the next big export for the U.S.
...or moving off shore.. At the rate we're going, educated people may become one of our exports. It IS one of Michigan's exports. Might be the next big export for the U.S.
Ha! It's been Maine's biggest export for quite a while now. I have a friend in MI who would love to move back to Maine, but there's no way they could afford to.
Personally, I'd like to stop hearing "those jobs will never come back" and start hearing "take care of our own."
Unfortunately, I suspect that will never happen in our "global economy."
It is what it is, but Artsguy is correct - it doesn't take much of a math education to do service jobs does it?
The flipside of what this professor says (to me anyway) is that perhaps if kids were learning more diverse topics, they'd find a niche and grow business from that angle.
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At the rate we're going, educated people may become one of our exports. It IS one of Michigan's exports. Might be the next big export for the U.S.
Ha! It's been Maine's biggest export for quite a while now. I have a friend in MI who would love to move back to Maine, but there's no way they could afford to.
