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Old 07-11-2011, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 7,178,553 times
Reputation: 3499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie On View Post
It's basically an overhaul of the system - reinforcing positive behaviors to encourage kids to repeat them, instead of punishing bad behaviors. I was on the team at our school this year and we focused on starting a student of the week program and recognizing the teachers - all to create a more positive environment.
I have to comment on "student of the week".
In elementary school, two of my kids were "that kid"-- the "good kid", the one who always was first to get SOTW. They really didn't much care after first grade, and everybody in the school knew it would be Susie or Johnny Jones right off the bat, then Annie Smith, then Bobby Johnson, and so on. Always the same kids until about February, when they'd run out of the obvious choices and either have to start repeating or just handing them out randomly. A couple of kids would never get it, no matter what, and they knew it, too. So it was kind of pointless.
Now in middle school, they've switched it up so that the kids who are chronically "bad kids" get SOTW if they manage to not screw up for three of five days. And the running joke is that getting SOTW is proof you're a loser.
I don't think the high schools bother with it, and probably just as well.

 
Old 07-11-2011, 06:24 AM
 
8 posts, read 11,979 times
Reputation: 15
Its not just getting bullied by someone.It also includes hating certain subjects or teachers.Another thing that students hate is when they could not pick up certain subject in class which could really irritate them!
 
Old 07-11-2011, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 7,178,553 times
Reputation: 3499
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
What kind of demographics are you working with? Do you have a significant percentage of children in the juvenile justice system? Has your school gotten much support from parents?

Those are two of our main obstacles when dealing with discipline. We also have quite a few parents in the corrections system as well. Sometimes all is well until the parent comes home from prison, then all hell breaks loose.

A number of teachers are concerned that the students are going to see this as a green light for committing x number of offenses before any real consequences come down on them. We don't need any more assaults on teachers. We had too many of those last year.
And may the heavens bless you for working with that bunch.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 06:28 AM
 
4,360 posts, read 4,206,368 times
Reputation: 5810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
I think the problem I see is that the PTB don't like to distinguish between cannot and will not. They see kids who are not passing (be it that one class or the FCAT) as one group, not a mixture of reasons. And they believe-- or are forced to assume by outside pressure groups-- that if we just work hard enough and sprinkle enough pixie dust, every kid in the class can get an A in chemistry.
Well, no. Some can't do the work, either because of inadequate preparation in lower level maths and sciences, or because their brains just won't grasp it, or because of outside stressors that make learning difficult. And some simply won't do the work. You can't treat all those kids the same way and expect it to bear results, but they try anyway.
I'd love to see some of the PTB try to deal with a class of unsocialized four-year-olds who can swear like sailors and fight like ninjas whose average maternal age is in the late teens. I believe that they think all kids entering school are fresh-faced and eager to spend all day being told what to do and what not to do. In our state, it's not unusual for a new kindergartner to have the vocabulary more typical of a two-year-old toddler. Except for the swear words, of course.

PBIS may work better with the younger age kids, though, because they are more likely to be receptive to rewards. Once the kids get to high school, many of them are so jaded, that they assume that they will end up in prison (or dead), so they may as well have fun before they go. The really mean ones want to take as many down with them as they can when they fall. These are the ones that may not respond to any behavioral intervention techniques.

Oh well, I'm going to give it a good try and will attempt to keep an open mind. I just hope my colleagues are willing to do the same. And I especially hope that the administration, both school-level and district, really take this implementation seriously. It really does look like another consultant has sold the district yet another panacea that will last just as long as the contract term.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,447,774 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
I think the problem I see is that the PTB don't like to distinguish between cannot and will not. They see kids who are not passing (be it that one class or the FCAT) as one group, not a mixture of reasons. And they believe-- or are forced to assume by outside pressure groups-- that if we just work hard enough and sprinkle enough pixie dust, every kid in the class can get an A in chemistry.
Well, no. Some can't do the work, either because of inadequate preparation in lower level maths and sciences, or because their brains just won't grasp it, or because of outside stressors that make learning difficult. And some simply won't do the work. You can't treat all those kids the same way and expect it to bear results, but they try anyway.
I agree. I really believe that the best thing I can do for some of my lower performing kids is to let them fail. Let them learn the lesson that no one will bail them out in the 12th hour (this is what most of them expect) when the reason for the failure is their failure to work.

So far, I have yet to have a student fail my class who actually tried. It's actually pretty hard to fail my class. Homework/bellwork should be an automatic A (pretty much credit for trying) and that's 15% of the grade. Quizzes are about 10% of the grade but you can submit corrections for 50% of missed credit. Lab reports are 25% of the grade but you can submit corrections for a maximum rescore of 80%. So, assuming a student scores 50% the first time on labs and quizzes, they walk into my tests needing a 40% to pass the class with a D-. It is my firm belief that any student who tries can score a 50% on labs and quizzes the first time around and tests.

With policies like these, I'm stunned that my administration has asked me to teach to the bottom of the class. I wish I were tenured or didn't need this job right now. I'd tell them where to stick that idea. I'm already giving so many second chances that, just about, anyone can pass my class if they try and I'm more than willing to work with the student who cannot pass but is there for the exposure.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 12:49 PM
 
31 posts, read 53,034 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
What kind of demographics are you working with? Do you have a significant percentage of children in the juvenile justice system? Has your school gotten much support from parents?

Those are two of our main obstacles when dealing with discipline. We also have quite a few parents in the corrections system as well. Sometimes all is well until the parent comes home from prison, then all hell breaks loose.

A number of teachers are concerned that the students are going to see this as a green light for committing x number of offenses before any real consequences come down on them. We don't need any more assaults on teachers. We had too many of those last year.

Inner city school, I think 93% free or reduced lunch. About 50% hispanic, 35% black 14% white and 1% other (give or take some).

There are a few parents who support us, but it is lacking for many students. I don't know how many kids are in the Juvenile Justice system - I would guess not many. We have about 750 kids. I think being smaller works to our advantage. However, we follow boystown and we have a great staff who works hard to build relationships with the kids. We have never had a lot of discipline referrals - it's mainly the same kids when we do. Boystown also works on teaching expectations and being proactive. We are in the halls during passing periods, therefore we can monitor and prevent a lot of fights. PBIS didn't mean a lot of changes for us because we followed a lot of those guidelines already.

It's really up to your administration to enforce things so the kids don't game the system. Again, the focus is on being proactive so you don't even have the behaviors happen. I don't know what it is like to be assaulted by the kids - but again, we have been following the boystown model and been proactive for many years, so it's not an issue.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 12:55 PM
 
31 posts, read 53,034 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
I have to comment on "student of the week".
In elementary school, two of my kids were "that kid"-- the "good kid", the one who always was first to get SOTW. They really didn't much care after first grade, and everybody in the school knew it would be Susie or Johnny Jones right off the bat, then Annie Smith, then Bobby Johnson, and so on. Always the same kids until about February, when they'd run out of the obvious choices and either have to start repeating or just handing them out randomly. A couple of kids would never get it, no matter what, and they knew it, too. So it was kind of pointless.
Now in middle school, they've switched it up so that the kids who are chronically "bad kids" get SOTW if they manage to not screw up for three of five days. And the running joke is that getting SOTW is proof you're a loser.
I don't think the high schools bother with it, and probably just as well.

I actually teach in a high school. I supposed "student of the week" is a bad way to really label it, because what we are doing is each teacher once a week nominates a child with a reason why they are nominating them, their names are read over the loudspeaker and they get some small prizes. It was a good mix of children nominated - I made sure to pick kids who showed progress - it wasn't just the "good" kids all the time. The kids were super excited to be nominated. Even the seniors liked it. It meant about 30 kids got recognized very week. So it wasn't really a "student of the week" but more like "hey, good job."



I want to emphasize that this isn't just a reward system. Yes, we chose to call out students who were doing good work, and that is certainly encouraged. However, the whole point is to be proactive so the behaviors don't get to be a problem. When people buy in and do it, then it works. When people go in with closed minds because they are sick of the new systems (trust me, I understand that!), then it ain't going to work.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 02:58 PM
 
4,360 posts, read 4,206,368 times
Reputation: 5810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie On View Post
Inner city school, I think 93% free or reduced lunch. About 50% hispanic, 35% black 14% white and 1% other (give or take some).

There are a few parents who support us, but it is lacking for many students. I don't know how many kids are in the Juvenile Justice system - I would guess not many. We have about 750 kids. I think being smaller works to our advantage. However, we follow boystown and we have a great staff who works hard to build relationships with the kids. We have never had a lot of discipline referrals - it's mainly the same kids when we do. Boystown also works on teaching expectations and being proactive. We are in the halls during passing periods, therefore we can monitor and prevent a lot of fights. PBIS didn't mean a lot of changes for us because we followed a lot of those guidelines already.

It's really up to your administration to enforce things so the kids don't game the system. Again, the focus is on being proactive so you don't even have the behaviors happen. I don't know what it is like to be assaulted by the kids - but again, we have been following the boystown model and been proactive for many years, so it's not an issue.
We're about the same size, but we only have black students. Fortunately, most of the students are nice, albeit undisciplined. Our staff is about half old-timers who have been there for at least 10 years. A few, like me, have taught our students' parents, which gives us a lot of cred. I run into former students all the time, and it makes me feel good when they apologize for all the trouble they caused. (I ran into one today. I told him he was forgiven before he even asked!)

The problem that we have is that we do have a significant population that is more than a bit troubled. We also have a lot of teachers who are apparently on some kind of power trip wanting to lord their authority over the students.

One of the reasons that I have never really had too many problems is that I treat the students with respect first. It's part of my reputation. So their parents won't believe them when they try to claim that I'm being unfair. The parents know that when I "pick on them", it's for their own good. I've never been directly assaulted, but I have inadvertently been in the middle of fights that broke out around me.

One of my concerns about the implementation of PBIS is that our assistant principals are usually very quick to suspend students, even when the infraction is not that serious. I think we stand a good chance of changing that.

I appreciate your input. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Old 10-04-2011, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
13,545 posts, read 9,973,546 times
Reputation: 16932
The School could be kak, with kak Teachers, the Child could see School as a waste of their time, due to not being taught. The Child could also not want to be thrust into an environment with other Children that he or she wouldn't choose as “Friends”. The School could just be a holding pen for bad people's Children, to keep them out of trouble, until the time comes for them to look for employment. (That is, if they do).
 
Old 10-07-2011, 12:39 PM
 
5,697 posts, read 19,101,014 times
Reputation: 8699
From my experience I hated school due to the social factor. I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional household and had a hard time relating to susie popular who didn't have a care in the world with the maturity level of a 10 yr old. I always felt older than everyone else. While some worried about if the quarterback would give them the time of day, I worried whether or not the lights would be on when I got home. I also went to a poorly funded school district in a very blue collar area. Most kids didn't go on to college so the counselors focused their attention on the honor roll kids. Kind of like survival of the fittest.

I now have a teenager and his dislike of school is different. Due to my experience I selected a district that pushed college. I got my degree as an adult and wanted my child to be college focused and go to an university after graduation. I now realize there is a negative to this environment as well. He says its the pressure of why he doesn't like school. I have provided him with a stable household so he doesn't feel much different than his peers except for academics. College is really pushed at his school, lots of his friends are in AP classes. My son says he feels like he has to look too far into the future of what his life should be and he isn't sure what he wants. He is an average student, sometimes above average but not qualified for the AP classes. I mean he could but he isn't super focused to maintain that sort of advancement. He bores easily with school work and maintaining a B average is work for him. He says any type of failure means he would never get into a college or least that is the attitude at his school. I told him that isn't true. Not that I want him to lower his expectations but I don't want him thinking that a failure in 9th grade is going to ruin his life! I have to admit as his parent, I feel the competitive nature. Some of the teachers slip up and say things like, "we want our kids to move on in life and not end up working in a factory." There is a very low blue collar percentage in our city. My husband works in a factory and makes a good living, enough so we can live among the elite. The last school meeting I went to, parents kept interrupting the teachers speech to get more information about the AP classes cuz their child is "so advanced". I get the sense it wasn't really a push for information but more of a push to let everyone know that their child is a star. I have to say its been somewhat interesting comparing my childhood educational experience to my son's, which is the polar opposite. I was neglected and he has everyone in his face.
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