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I've lived 'all over' and my kids have gone to 5 different public school systems in 4 states. They are 8 and 11 now (3rd & 5th grade) and have never been given the burden of school work that I hear about all the time online (even from some in the same grade/school/class).
The problem I hear (and witness) is mostly a marked indifference by the other parents. Yesterday, my third grader's weekly newsletter from the teacher had a note at the bottom stating "If you write a $ next to your initials in their daily planner for today, then tomorrow I will reward your student with $200 in classroom 'dollars'". My daughter told me that 2 students, other than her, received the reward. It takes me about 1 minute to read through the email the teacher sends. 22 other parents couldn't find ONE minute free?
Her teacher has expressed concern that parents are not reading the newsletter. This is the second time she's 'tested' the parents - usually the same ones who complain that they are not notified about various school and classroom happenings in a timely manner.
She has nightly homework (30 minutes of reading - done at bedtime, daily practice of spelling words -about 5-10 minutes, two worksheets per week - 5 to 10 minutes and is supposed to practice her multiplication facts - another 10 minutes). She gets home from school at 3:45. She changes into play clothes (they wear uniforms) and then has a snack while the kids tell us about their day and I go through their 'agendas' and folders, signing what's necessary and tossing what's not. By 4:15 at the latest she's on homework. She's always done prior to 5pm - typically before 4:30. Then she's off to play with her friends or dog until 5:30-6:30pm. Some nights, we have an activity (cooking class, basketball, cheer, etc). Dinner is at 5:30 on activity nights, 6:30 on 'free nights'. She's in the bath now (went in at 7pm) and will have another 30-45 min of 'free time' until bed at 8 (when there's no activity) to read until 8:30 - extend that by half an hour to 45 minutes on activity nights.
My 5th grader has about the same - though he has a bit more daily homework, he's more advanced and generally done by 4:15 with his homework. If he has a special project, we work on that with him after dinner until they are complete - a little bit each night. This week he has 'benchmarks', which means no homework, other than nightly reading. As nightly reading has been a part of their routine since birth, none of us count this as 'extra'. Earlier this month, he turned in a 'special project' that we spent a total of 1 hour on. The assignment was passed out the week prior to Christmas break, but apparently this was too hard on parents so they extended the deadline until the 10th of January (a week after the kids returned). My son and one other were the ONLY ones to turn it in. Thirty plus other parents and students couldn't find ONE hour in 3+ weeks to complete this project - despite a two week holiday from school? They extended the deadline by 5 additional days. Only HALF of the students turned it in on time. The parents of the 'set upon' students with 'too much homework' threw a major fit when it was decided to give those students that turned it in a special reward - two days of recess, to allow classroom time for the 'overworked' to complete their project.
On school nights, my kids have at LEAST an hour of 'freeplay'. I can imagine though that if your child is in daycare for two hours after school each day that having to do homework once they return home is a challenge. But those two hours after school ARE 'freeplay'.
Just because parents work long hours (which is what is ACTUALLY cutting into 'family time', doesn't mean that your child doesn't need to learn multiplication or US History.
^^^^This.
My son's teacher told me that on one extra credit assignment, the kids had to write the score of a baseball game down. They'd get 5 extra points on their next social studies test. Only one other child besides my son did it.
My son gets home at 330. He has from then til 5pm to do whatever he wishes. Then he does his homework while I make dinner. We have dinner. Then he has free time for another 1.5-2 hours. Plenty IMO.
Elementary kids benefit from around 10 minutes per grade of homework. That would INCLUDE mandatory reading. More than that is just more, not necessarily better.
It's not always a matter of being overworked. Winter break is a BREAK. That means no schoolwork. MY TIME not the school's. We go away every winter break. It's called BREAK not a time to pile on special projects. Plus-the kids should be able to do the projects independently. There is no educational reason to require parental participation in school projects other than driving the kid to the store to get supplies.
I am glad you enjoy the drudgery of homework and projects but most parents do not. If they served some educational purpose I would play along but they don't so neither do I. My kids will never do a project over winter break. That's my time.
See how fast children's grades would go down if homework were suddenly done away with. It's a valuable learning tool.
]I have a standing offer in my class. Zeros on homework are forgiven if you get an A on my test. Otherwise, I figure you needed to do more homework.
Good policy.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The problem is, we raise our kids to think that their education is everyone's problem but theirs to orchestrate. As a result, someone else has to tell them how many problems to do (it's my fault if they didn't get enough practice after all ). I can't give 10 and rely on the students who need 20 to do the extra 10 on their own. If 20 are needed by some students to pass, I have to assign 20.
This is a very true statement. I would love teachers to address this head on in class in some way. I think you are partially addressing it by offering a pass on the homework if they get an A on the test, but you are not fully addressing it.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
]You should be a fly on the wall in my class this week. We're prepping for what, traditionally, is a tough test on Friday. My students keep asking what they can do and I'll ask "Have you done the example problems in the chapter?" and they'll just look at me with a dear caught in headlights look. Of course they didn't. I didn't assign them. And if I did, they'd just copy the answer without attempting the problem on their own. One of the best study aids they have are those step by step problems in the book but they don't use them right. Copying doesn't teach you anything. You need to attempt the problem on your own and then use the step by step solution to assess how well you did and make corrections. I repeat this until I'm blue in the face and it doesn't work, so I assign 100 problems and we do a few in class every day after I check that they've attempted them. They could accomplish the same thing by doing the example problems on their own and looking at the answers only after they'd finished or realized they were, hopelessly, stuck but they won't do that. That's not the way we raised our kids. We raised our kids to rely on someone else to tell them how much practice they need and what to study.
I agree that kids have been raised to think its someone else's responsibility to study for them but you are not really addressing the problem by just piling on the work. I KNOW why, that is a big reason why I have left teaching. I believe in letting kids fail and learning from their failures but schools will not allow teachers to teach that way in public schools. It does result in an intrusiveness to family life that IMO is unacceptable. Luckily, my kids are in honors and AP classes at a private school where kids are made to sink or swim and there is much less assigned homework.
In AP chemistry there is assigned homework but if 20 will do 20 are assigned. If you need more do more. If not, fail the test.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
]I had one girl inquire about the final next week. She asked what she should study. I answered "What did we learn this semester?". Her eyes got big and she asked "All of it??" She once came to me because she missed a problem on a test because it wasn't on the review guide. I had to remind her that it's a guide intended to hit most of the material not something to be memorized to get an A (What she wants to do). The difference between an A and a B in my class is you know more than what is on the study guide. Knowing only what is on the study guide will get you a decent passing grade but not an A. She, and her parents, think this is unfair.
I don't think it's unfair but I stopped using study guides for my theory assignments when I was teaching. I found that kids did better if I just told them that everything in the assignment (usually a chapter or two) would be on the test and that they should study from the chapter rather than give them a study guide. Why bother with the work of putting together a study guide if its going to be misleading to the students?
I am also a HUGE supporter of reading and teaching children about the world around them. That does not involve any kind of homework. I know, it's hard to imagine if you only think about "teaching to the test" and cramming kids heads full of "facts."
The teachers should be protesting the current state of education.
I am so sick of lazy parents who blame the teachers for every problem they see in the systemic factors of the school system and keep saying they are the ones who need to complain.. Lady, I don't know a single teacher who likes NCLB and we've been complaining about districts that force teachers to teach to the test for years. Teachers have less control every year about what they teach in their classroom and how they teach it.
If parents want change, they must go to the state level and the national level. They must be loud, lobby their representatives, refuse to elect those who support policies in the classroom they do not. Many teachers are part of unions that have been protesting these problems for years (you know, while you sat on your behind and did nothing.)
Screaming at the teachers to change systemic problems is preaching to the choir. It's as useless as me going down to the crossing guard and screaming at him about the price of stamps. He has nothing to do with the price of stamps. He has no ability to affect change. I am wasting my time, as are you, directing your anger at other people who recognize a problem and are also powerless to change it.
YOU elect local, state and federal representatives who put these policies of testing in place. Time to step up.
In days gone by, the schools were responsive to their students - many students had home or farm responsibilities, crops to harvest, etc., that interfered with schooling. Schools were more flexible.
Sounds like you're throwing blame anywhere in order to avoid addressing the issues people are raising with you.
Yes, you're right. Back in 1800 you had less homework. The problem is, in 1800, if your kid could sort of read at a 6th grade level, could add well enough to calculate how much they get paid for their wheat crop, we called that a success.
The world has made progress since then. Knowledge possessed by humanity doubles every two years. Now if you are a poor kid who doesn't want to learn, unlike in 1800 where we said, "Okay, no biggie" and allowed you to be illiterate, the school is held accountable for your test scores, even if you refuse to pick up a pencil, etc. Now that same kid is expected to pass 12th grade exams that are much more rigorous than anything they had to learn in 1800.
I do agree that homework could be cut back in many instances. But parents like you need to realize that this is a systemic problem that became much worse when teachers started being forced to teach former 3rd grade objectives to 1st graders under the law of NCLB. If parents want a change, THEY must actually pay attention to who they vote for, lobby for change, etc. Screaming at teachers for federal law they have no more control over than any other voter is ludicrous.
As an aside: Not everyone is on the fast track to be an engineer. For those who are, and who want the extra work, they should be able to opt-in . . . it used to be that "gifted" children were given resources to allow them to blossom. Now it's almost a punishment . . . you have to attend extra class time after school. But for the parents who want to push that on their kids and are hell-bent on "achievement" at any cost, the gifted programs are there. Everyone else shouldn't have to suffer, though.
This I do agree with. I would like to see something closer to Germany's system in place where students are set on different tracks, some trained vocationally, others on a middle track, only the students who truly want it continuing on a rigorous track. However, again, that would have to come from within the community. It's up to the community as a whole to set the standard of what they want.
Additionally, even that system has problems. It's notable that students from immigrant families in that country have a hard time breaking into the upper levels.
I am also a HUGE supporter of reading and teaching children about the world around them. That does not involve any kind of homework. I know, it's hard to imagine if you only think about "teaching to the test" and cramming kids heads full of "facts."
The teachers should be protesting the current state of education. I want children to become critical thinkers, but that is too difficult to manage - schools would rather have robots - people who can think for themselves can be troublesome or dangerous because they can start questioning everything around them.
The music teacher had it right.
My son's homework is not full of facts and rote memorization. It's reading, answering questions about the story, learning vocabulary and definitions. It's learning how to read maps, our government, etc.
Can people please address the questions posed in the thread topic about schools imposing on family TIME? Thank you.
I guess you give the school the right to do that when you enroll your child there. Homework isn't a new concept. It's pretty much known that being in school will usually involve homework.
In my opinion, HW is helpful when it provides practice in the material that was taught that day in school. For example, if the students worked on multiplying double digits, then a worksheet with further practice in multiplying double digits will help reinforce what they learned.
Kids get better at all sorts of activities through practice; i.e. playing an instrument, sports, dance, etc., so extra practice on school work I believe can be helpful.
But what I do have a problem with is work being sent home that has barely been touched on at school because there just isn't enough time during the school day for the material to be covered, OR enough practice has not been given in school so that my child can work on the material independently. When I have to start TEACHING my child the material, not due to lack of understanding but due to insufficient time spent on the material at school, then I have a problem. I don't mind teaching my children if they are having difficulties understanding the materials; that is a different story. But I should NOT have to teach my child material that should have been well covered in the classroom by the teacher.
I also despise the forced reading! Throughout elementary school, my kids have been forced to read for a specific amount of time each night, keep a log of the number of minutes read and often write a response on their reading!
Who the heck reads like this???? I LOVE to read. I DEVOUR books! However, some days I may have time to read for a couple of hours, sometimes I only have a couple of minutes to read. I can't IMAGINE loving to read if I was forced by someone to read 20 minutes per day, then have to log what I read, then have to write about what I read. That would just SAP the love of reading right out of me!
My middle schooler, who is only 11 and in 6th grade gets an enormous amount of HW that I feel is developmentally inappropriate. Just this week she had midterms. MIDTERMS for a sixth grader? Tests covering the material from the beginning of the year all given in the span of 3 days! She came home with packets of sheets that needed to be filled out AND studied all in less than a week.
Sorry, but I actually downplayed the importance of these tests with my daughter. No way was I going to have her stress over midterms, particularly since it was evident that my daughter would have to use rote memorization to do well on these tests. That's just crazy! Unfortunately, her midterm grades are probably going to bring down her grades for this marking period, which is a real shame because she was holding a 90 to 100 average in all her classes before this craziness.
As for the schools infringing on family time, when my kids were in K through 3rd grade, their teachers gave us "FAMILY PROJECTS" 4 times out of the year.
The problem I had with these projects was twofold:
1st: The projects always had to be done over the weekend because the kids received so much HW during the week that it left no time to work on these "family projects".
2nd: I found it EXTREMELY insulting that the schools felt they needed to CREATE family projects in order to get parents to spend time doing something with their children.
The premise of the thread has not even been touched upon: How is it that state run schools have the RIGHT to dictate that homework be conducted off-premises, i.e., AT HOME?
Oh, I'm so sorry you didn't see my response to you! Here, let me reprint it for your convenience:
First, no state law compels your child to attend public school. You are free, in all fifty states of this country, to homeschool or to have your child attend private school or charter school. What this means is that if your child attends public school,you have chosen to send your child there, and what that means is that you have agreed to abide by its policies. To make a comparison, if I have chosen to go to Dr. Jones, and she requires me to fast for 24 hours before a test, I am free not to do it -- and she is free to ask me to go elsewhere. Don't like the policies? You are free to go.
In other words, stop playing the oppressed victim.
Later, when you asked, "Who has given schools the authority to take over family time and family life in this abusive way?" my answer was as follows:
Two words: you have.
I do hope this helps you!
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Rote memorization and the repeating of "facts" is not enhancing the education of anyone except those who want to spout facts and other meaningless drivel.
Ah, yes. How dare facts -- uh, drivel -- ever be taught by schools.
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