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Old 06-02-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 5,794,970 times
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[quote=hypocore;19413120]On the subject of cheating....my second daughter teaches high school math. One of the assignments before school was out regarded note cards with review problems. One student was going out of town for a few days before the cards were due, so my daughter helped her one on one with them and did so very quickly without having finished her own set or the answer key. As it turns out, several of the problems were done incorrectly and daughter realized it after the student had gone out of town. She did not count off for those on the note cards for this student since she was partly at fault for going too quickly and before she was ready and she had the correct answers waiting for her when she would return.

Fast forward and my daughter gets a phone call from the AP, asking her about this situation, explaining having gotten a phone call from said student (who was out of town still unable to return on time due to weather cancellations) who was accusing my daughter of giving her the wrong answers on purpose and so that her friends who COPIED her note cards would also get the wrong answers.

Really?

My daughter says she explained to the AP and then to the student when she called her, that it was definitely not on purpose, that she could not believe she had missed that herself when helping the student. She told her that because it was entirely her fault that she did NOT count those wrong on that student's cards. (before the student had even called about it) However, if she let others copy of hers instead of doing it themselves, then that's on THEM getting it wrong in addition to copying..............[/quote]

Sounds like she did the right thing once she discovered the error to me, and to those who copied: Welcome to the wonderful world of Kharma.

As a parent, I'd be all over my kid like white on rice for cheating. They know that, so they don't take the chance (or at least not that I've been made aware of).

As far as a parent asking the teacher how the child is doing, I know many who do exactly that; however, imagine their surprise when after a few weeks they find out that their child is not actually doing as well as the teacher had mentioned before. Part of that is due to the fact that the teacher is pressured to show their students are making adequate progress.

We reap what we sow.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:05 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 3,003,542 times
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Quote:
Aside from the No True Scotsman issues here, there are very good reasons for not sending tests home. Cheating being the primary reason.

Kids, even middle school kids, have been known to keep tests and pass them on to younger friends and siblings. And with the push to test using CCS then it no longer becomes possible to write a completely new test each and every year.

My students get to look over their tests during review of that test, during midterm or finals, and just about any other time they want. But they do not get to take the tests home with them. If a parent really wants to see an exam they are more than welcome to come see it, at school. I have had parents do this multiple times this year, usually when they have heard from their child that tests are confusing or too hard as an excuse for a bad grade.

Finally, many school systems (not mine thank god) REQUIRE teachers to use the test banks created by the textbook companies. Some of those companies do not want their intellectual property given to anyone without a license.
Quote:
First off, the easy workaround is to have the parent sign the test and send it back end, docking points if it is not returned.
It's still a problem, dude. One word: Xerox. We have a machine right here.
Quote:


Second, I cannot imagine any serious explanation where the parent cannot see where the kid messed up. Are you serious? How the heck is the parent going to know where the child is having problems? How can a tutor know where the child's particular weaknesses lie?
I agree. This is a serious problem.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:14 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 3,003,542 times
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Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Ultimately, the person responsible for that grade is the CHILD. The child is the one sitting in the class, learning the material, and taking the test. If a parent's expectations and the child's performance are not in sync, and the parent has done all the tutoring or practicing they can, the parent will then turn to "advocate" for a higher grade. Too many parents will do whatever necessary, even bully the teacher, to ensure that their child gets "the best grade possible".
There is some truth to that. It's obviously not true of every parent, but it's true of many of them.

However, there is some truth to the other side. For example, my child just took a test on which one answer was marked wrong. The answer my child chose was the one apparently supported by the book. I advised my child to email the instructor and politely and respectfully ask for clarification about the question.

We're doing so for two reasons:
1. The grade matters
2. The education matters more

The grade won't be particularly affected by one question on one quiz (and the quizzes do not count for a great deal). Far more important is the education: if the answer is wrong, it's important to understand why. If the instructor declines to change the grade, so be it. If the answer is wrong, so be it. If it's a mistake or a poorly worded question, though, that's important: the question should be rewritten to be more clear, thus saving some students an unnecessary lowering of their grades and the instructor some unnecessary headache.

As a teacher myself, I appreciate it when students politely and respectfully ask for clarification. I'll say it right out: I'm not always right. My questions on tests aren't vetted by ETS. My wording isn't always perfect for every student. I actually want to have people point things out, and I'm fine with correcting my grades when or if I'm wrong.

What I'm not so happy with as a teacher is when parents or students demand a grade to be changed for no other reason than that they want a higher grade.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:25 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 16,230,441 times
Reputation: 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
There is some truth to that. It's obviously not true of every parent, but it's true of many of them.

However, there is some truth to the other side. For example, my child just took a test on which one answer was marked wrong. The answer my child chose was the one apparently supported by the book. I advised my child to email the instructor and politely and respectfully ask for clarification about the question.

We're doing so for two reasons:
1. The grade matters
2. The education matters more

The grade won't be particularly affected by one question on one quiz (and the quizzes do not count for a great deal). Far more important is the education: if the answer is wrong, it's important to understand why. If the instructor declines to change the grade, so be it. If the answer is wrong, so be it. If it's a mistake or a poorly worded question, though, that's important: the question should be rewritten to be more clear, thus saving some students an unnecessary lowering of their grades and the instructor some unnecessary headache.

As a teacher myself, I appreciate it when students politely and respectfully ask for clarification. I'll say it right out: I'm not always right. My questions on tests aren't vetted by ETS. My wording isn't always perfect for every student. I actually want to have people point things out, and I'm fine with correcting my grades when or if I'm wrong.

What I'm not so happy with as a teacher is when parents or students demand a grade to be changed for no other reason than that they want a higher grade.
I completely agree, and emphasize that it is the STUDENT asking for clarification, or even argue for a particular answer, not a particular GRADE.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:54 AM
 
1 posts, read 498 times
Reputation: 10
Great Advice by everyone!
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