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I propose we make obtaining teaching credentialing more difficult by actually making it HARD to graduate your training as a teacher.
I have over a decade of experience teaching people math, but I am not "qualified" to teach math to struggling high school students.
I have an advance degree in economics with years at the Ph.d. level (which is all abstract math) with a 3.5 gpa. I minored in Math as a undergrad. I scored a 790/800 in the qualitative section of the GRE, but the state considers me unsuited to teach people math.
Why do you want to make it more difficult for qualified people to teach?
My post was intended to show show well educated students are across the different states.
Ok. In that case I'd agree with you, kids in those states are going to be more educated on average.
Quote:
I don't know anything about (public) educational policy. Can you kindly explain what you mean and how the states differ?
Some people like to take the data you posted -- which are the results of the students' achievement -- and then interpret it to mean that these high achieving states have school systems which are better than the school systems at the bottom of the list. Those folks would argue that it was the union that made the difference in scores, or the pay, or any number of policy decisions.
That is what I would strongly disagree with. The biggest determinant of student's scores are the quality of their family. Teachers aren't miracle workers.
Ok. In that case I'd agree with you, statistically kids in those states are going to be more educated.
Some people would take the data you posted, and then interpret it to mean that New Jersey's school systems are better than the school systems at the bottom of the list. That is what I would strongly disagree with.
Can you explain why the data in that chart is not a good representation of which is a better school system? I want to define "better school system" as the school system one would put their child in over the other(s) with the expectation of the child having received a better education (given that is the primary purpose of a school system).
I want to define "better school system" as the school system one would put their child in over the other(s) with the expectation of the child having received a better education (given that is the primary purpose of a school system).
well it depends on what we're talking about. if you define "school system" to include the kids themselves, and the knowledge that they accumulate from their parents, measured by their total achievement, then this is one way to look at it. That is probably how I'd look at it if I was a parent, looking to send my kid to one of several schools in an area.
If you define "school system" to include the set of policies, the rules, the regulations, the methods involved, the tools used, the amount of money spent, and so on, without taking into account the sort of students that attend.... that is another way to look at it. That's how I'd define it, if I was looking at state-level data, and trying to figure out which state had the best system of educating its students.
well it depends on what we're talking about. if you define "school system" to include the kids themselves, and the knowledge that they accumulate from their parents, measured by their total achievement, then this is one way to look at it. That is probably how I'd look at it if I was a parent, looking to send my kid to one of several schools in an area.
If you define "school system" to include the set of policies, the rules, the regulations, the methods involved, the tools used, the amount of money spent, and so on, without taking into account the sort of students that attend.... that is another way to look at it. That's how I'd define it, if I was looking at state-level data, and trying to figure out which state had the best system of educating its students.
Or we could just fire the bad teachers we have. Oh wait, I forgot the unions.
And teachers get fired every year in nearly every school system across the US.
Those horror stories you read about are usually caused by lazy administrators not doing their jobs. Teachers as a rule have no more and no less protection from wrongful termination than any other worker in any field. Even most non-union employers have work rules covering termination.
Again, where people get the idea that the teacher's associations are so powerful is a source of bemusement to me. Most, if not all, are pretty worthless. In nearly 30 years I've had occasion to call on the association twice-once for a grievance that took 4 years to settle (in my favor) and by that time the situation had worked itself out and another time for an incident where the Principal was allowing a parent to conduct an investigation of my restraint of her son (who had punched me in the face after I broke up a fight he had instigated). In neither case was the local association any help at all.
I propose we make obtaining teaching credentialing more difficult by actually making it HARD to graduate your training as a teacher.
Discuss.
My degree for teaching high school biology is basically pre-med with pedagogy/internship classes attached. It's hard enough
Most people "have a friend" or "always heard getting a teaching a degree was easy". This is not always the case and this broad generalization is not necessary.
My degree for teaching high school biology is basically pre-med with pedagogy/internship classes attached. It's hard enough
Most people "have a friend" or "always heard getting a teaching a degree was easy". This is not always the case and this broad generalization is not necessary.
That's why it's advantageous to have people like us in the discussion,
who actually know what it is of which we speak.
You think any K-12 teacher could diagram a sentence?
No!
If you spent a few minutes re-teaching it to them? I'd bet most could.
Hey I couldn't diagram a sentence right now. Is that because I'm stupid?
No, its because I learned how to do it 25-30 years ago and NEVER had to do it again once I left High School.
I know your specific point is to somehow highlight how dumb most teachers are, but you'll need a better example as proof...
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