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This is one of those times when I'm not sure I inhabit the same America as the rest of you do. Certainly my community isn't perfect, but our students perform at a very high level. Science and math clubs are well-attended, schools are sufficiently-funded and well-run, parents are involved, and teachers are committed.
I think our kids' motivation comes from a combination of caring teachers and parents, along with a community that values education and holds high expectations for those who both provide it and receive it.
UNC4Me has made a very good point. Our schools have been on this "everyone deserves a college education" kick for too long. Too many children are in school with no place to go after graduation. We need to go back to some sort of hands on training.
Not everyone needs college. Many need to start supporting themselves much earlier.
Maybe make it possible for a boy(or girl) to learn a trade at a high school level????
Do trade union, etc. still have apprenticeship programs?
This is one of those times when I'm not sure I inhabit the same America as the rest of you do. Certainly my community isn't perfect, but our students perform at a very high level. Science and math clubs are well-attended, schools are sufficiently-funded and well-run, parents are involved, and teachers are committed.
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You may not inhabit the same America as the rest of us. Our America also has people that work with their hands, plumbers, roofers, lawn maintenance. There are people that pave roads, pick up garbarge, string power lines, work on cars, change oil, fix brakes, man police and fire stations. They even do things like run the projector at the movie theater and sell things like cars and clothes.
These sorts of jobs do not need the college prep type courses. But they do need more how-to-live skills. Math and Science clubs are great! But there are a lot of kids that really could care less about math and science. They also need instruction.
As I pointed out in another thread, my very own father attended a vocational school in tbe '50s and went to work as a draftsman/tool designer immediately after graduation. He knows trigonometry inside and out, much better, in fact, than his college-educated daughter. So let's not pretend that vocational kids, including our future plumbers and electricians, can do without a good math/science education. BTW, my HVAC guy, Kevin, has a university degree and is quite the polymath.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 08-30-2011 at 12:03 PM..
As I pointed out in another thread, my very own father attended a vocational school in tbe '50s and went to work as a draftsman/tool designer immediately after graduation. He knows trigonometry inside and out, much better, in fact, than his college-educated daughter. So let's not pretend that vocational kids, including our future plumbers and electricians, can do without a good math/science education. BTW, my HVAC guy, Kevin, has a university degree and is quite the polymath.
Agreed. This "anti-science", "anti-math", frankly, "anti-education in general" attitude drives me crazy. If the majority of CD posters had their way, we wouldn't encourage anyone to go to college.
And I wonder how many other HVAC guys do not have a university degree and may be doing as well, or even better than your guy???
Did he get his degree planning to do that kind of work?
I don't have any idea, padgett, but the the fact is that it's insulting to think that tradespeople can well do without (or are not capable of accomplishing) a sound science and math education. If a kid's sole ambition is to pick up garbage everyday for the rest of his life, he needs no education at all beyond that which allows him to read and understand his job requirements and manage his paycheck, all of which he should be able to accomplish before the end of middle school at the latest.
Agreed. This "anti-science", "anti-math", frankly, "anti-education in general" attitude drives me crazy. If the majority of CD posters had their way, we wouldn't encourage anyone to go to college.
I think we should encourage every kid to go to college, but also have something to offer those who can't or won't do the work to get there.
What I don't want to see happen is the continual dumbing down of curriculum. If schools insist on tracking ALL kids into college prep classes and at the same time states force schools to perform on standardized tests at specific levels for funding, teaching to the lowest common denominator results.
I don't have any idea, padgett, but the the fact is that it's insulting to think that tradespeople can well do without (or are not capable of accomplishing) a sound science and math education. If a kid's sole ambition is to pick up garbage everyday for the rest of his life, he needs no education at all beyond that which allows him to read and understand his job requirements and manage his paycheck, all of which he should be able to accomplish before the end of middle school at the latest.
You have missed a point, a big important point. And that is that NOT ALL STUDENTS WANT OR ARE CAPABLE OF A COLLEGE EDUCATION.
So, do we teach the ones that want that college education and ignore the rest, or do we also try to teach them how to get along in life too?
Right now, we aren't doing a very good job on those that can't hack or afford more education.
You may think it's insulting, but in the REAL world, there are a lot of people that can't handle a university education.
We MUST start doing a better job and quit dumbing down education (college included) so that everyone can graduate.
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Definitely. Parents can discipline or reward their kids all they want, but the students need to have self-motivation.
