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I asked my daughter about bullying. She tells me she has never heard of anyone being bullied at school. She attends a school with 2000 other students.
I'm going to guess the answer to this question lies in your definition of bullying.
We, recently, had an anti bullying program brought to our school. During the afterglow (teachers sat in the rooms but did not participate), the majority of, while tearful, complaints were of the nature "You make me feel like I don't fit in". They weren't someone did X to me or called me names or beat me up in the bathroom. The biggest complaint (at least in my group) was they felt others didn't go out of their way to make them feel they fit in. If you use this definition of bullying, it's rampant. I'm going to admit that these kids were negatively impacted by this feeling they didn't fit in but I have to wonder if this has more to do with the student who feels they don't fit in's perceptions than someone doing something (or failing to do something) to make them feel they don't fit in.
I remember feeling I didn't fit in in high school but that was me. I didn't try to fit in. As my mother used to say, I just preferred to eat worms...(nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I'm going to eat some worms...anyone remember the rest of the words... I just remember the last worm tries to run....)
That said, I do think some kids are bullied. I went through a time myself when I got beat up a couple of times by a gang of girls. It does happen. The question is is it more common today?
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-15-2011 at 03:49 AM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I asked my daughter about bullying. She tells me she has never heard of anyone being bullied at school. She attends a school with 2000 other students.
I'm going to guess the answer to this question lies in your definition of bullying.
We, recently, had an anti bullying program brought to our school. During the afterglow (teachers sat in the rooms but did not participate), the majority of, while tearful, complaints were of the nature "You make me feel like I don't fit in". They weren't someone did X to me or called me names or beat me up in the bathroom. The biggest complaint (at least in my group) was they felt others didn't go out of their way to make them feel they fit in. If you use this definition of bullying, it's rampant. I'm going to admit that these kids were negatively impacted by this feeling they didn't fit in but I have to wonder if this has more to do with the student who feels they don't fit in's perceptions than someone doing something (or failing to do something) to make them feel they don't fit in.
I remember feeling I didn't fit in in high school but that was me. I didn't try to fit in. As my mother used to say, I just preferred to eat worms...(nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I'm going to eat some worms...anyone remember the rest of the words... I just remember the last worm tries to run....)
That said, I do think some kids are bullied. I went through a time myself when I got beat up a couple of times by a gang of girls. It does happen. The question is is it more common today?
Since it's so hard to quantify it's hard to comprehensively answer the question of whether it's getting worse. My personal gut feeling is it's getting somewhat better. It's just that schools and parents are so vigilant about bullying...a lot of schools have a 'zero tolerance' policy so so many 'incidences' of bullying are reported. Kids will be kids, and bullying will always be there, but I truly think bullying was worst in the past. Like you said you got beat up, I never got close to getting beaten up, and I don't know anyone who did.
Generally physical violence in general has gotten less tolerated in civil society as time goes on, not just in school but in society (some would argue we've "matured" while others think we've gotten soft; I think we've made progress though).
Lesser tolerance for "getting physical" -- that doesn't just go just for being beat up in school, but also things like corporal punishment, rough treatment by law enforcement, kids getting spanked by parents or teachers, domestic assault that goes on in private, etc.
People aren't going to let things "come to blows" more generally in more life situations. We've learned that sucker punching someone in the face isn't a good solution to many problems in a functioning society.
On a wider scope, as the generations go on, we have way more sympathy for any kind of victim of physical violence now too (just think of the older times when people laughed and cheered at public executions and hangings, or how gentlemen's duels, blood sports like animal fighting etc. were portrayed as excitement and entertainment).
When I went to search for what is bullying, it seemed the pros say bullying is anything that makes someone feel uncomortable. So even though it may not seem a big deal to us as adults if a child calls another child a name, to them it is a big deal and that is bullying.IMO.
What pros?
I have been to a ridiculous amount of training for this in the past two years and have never heard the definition of "anything that makes someone feel uncomfortable" used, EVER.
Always the "imbalance of power" is stressed.
"
Although definitions of bullying vary, most agree that bullying involves:
Imbalance of Power: people who bully use their power to control or harm and the people being bullied may have a hard time defending themselves"
Sorry but the issue with your daughter and her friend saying "So?"just does not meet the criteria for bullying. At least not based on how you presented it here.
I have been to a ridiculous amount of training for this in the past two years and have never heard the definition of "anything that makes someone feel uncomfortable" used, EVER.
That's our definition. Same with sexual harrassment (the example I used about my friend and I happened, the other examples happened to others).
Always the "imbalance of power" is stressed.
That's never, ever been used for us. If it was, the administrators couldn't get away with what they try.
"
Although definitions of bullying vary, most agree that bullying involves:
Imbalance of Power: people who bully use their power to control or harm and the people being bullied may have a hard time defending themselves"
Sorry but the issue with your daughter and her friend saying "So?"just does not meet the criteria for bullying. At least not based on how you presented it here.
This is what you and I both have been saying, defining bullying is almost impossible.
I have been to a ridiculous amount of training for this in the past two years and have never heard the definition of "anything that makes someone feel uncomfortable" used, EVER.
Always the "imbalance of power" is stressed.
"
Although definitions of bullying vary, most agree that bullying involves:
Imbalance of Power: people who bully use their power to control or harm and the people being bullied may have a hard time defending themselves"
Sorry but the issue with your daughter and her friend saying "So?"just does not meet the criteria for bullying. At least not based on how you presented it here.
Thanks for links, am gonna have to see them. I went to search just the other day and typed in "What exactly is bullying?" as I always thought bullying was what we see on movies, the kid threatening to beat the other kid up or actually beating up. But I saw the psychologists(pros, lol) say there are many forms of bullying and not just the beating up. I did see the "power" come up all times and also the bully having a very high regards of themselves with not much empathy . I also saw "making someone feel uncomfortable". And sorry I agreed to that statement and put IMO and stand by it.
From one of many, mnay articles: Verbal and Emotional Bullying
Verbal Bullying has no physical manifestations, but can be just as damaging. This type of bullying consists of name name-calling, teasing, gossiping, or otherwise insulting or humiliating the victim. Verbal bullying is closely linked to emotional bullying and often happens concurrently, as victims are deeply internally affected by the verbal abuse they suffer.
Victims are sometimes forced to think of this quote, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may never hurt me.” I’m sorry but this is the biggest lie ever, especially if the victim is going through depression caused by bullying. Ending.....
I never said anyone told my daughter So?, where did you see that? Also please don't give any advice on my daughter on what you think is or is not bullying. I am the parent i will decide what is for her.
Last edited by laina1980; 12-15-2011 at 07:27 PM..
Everyone's takes on bullying is very interesting I am glad found this thread. In the end is still the worst to be the victim of a very mean bully and worse when noone is there for you, seems in movies noone is ever there for them, LOL. My daughters new current teacher is a whipper snapper I saw her chase a student down in snow to bring him back as the kid yanked another kids rosary off his neck. She also told my daughter "You better tell me if have problem with anyone". Wish all teachers were like this. I tried to teach my daugthter some witty comebacks to kids when they say stupid things but she is just too nice. She did tell one kid to "Back off" when they tried to shove her in line for lunch. I may not be a expert but I am a parent and all I can hope is if anyones child is in any bullying scenarios is to stand by thier child and do what you can to protect them.
On another note some articles I saw also mention adults are bullied as well, ...For me that would be my mother J/K
Last edited by laina1980; 12-15-2011 at 07:38 PM..
No they just cover the suicides because of bullying, not sure how often in AU, but all to frequently here in the US, facilitated by the ease of cyber-bullying where the cowards can be miles away from their victim.At least the bully had to have the courage to face me in school, and as a couple will tell you got a bloody nose and a huge dose of embarrassment for their efforts. No such risk today, and the cowardly bullies are like cockroaches today, that run away when you turn a light on.
As long as we have humans, we will have bullies. It's not exactly new... but people now have to put a label on everything and then over-react to it. Kids tend to pick on each other. It's part of growing up. If a kid plays victim rather than speaking up for himself (or herself), they will pounce.
I advocate teaching kids to be assertive in the presence of a bully... not some retreating scared rabbit.
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