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I remember chaperoning a group of first graders on a field trip to the local grocery store. Some kids were misbehaving, and the teacher stood in front of the store and said, "If you kids don't start behaving, I will cancel this field trip before it starts, and don't think I won't". The misbehavior stopped.
This IS something I use as well, and it works. It is before the fact, isn't disciplining kids yet who haven't misbehaved but is a quick and effective way to get kids' attention that you are serious.
I remember chaperoning a group of first graders on a field trip to the local grocery store. Some kids were misbehaving, and the teacher stood in front of the store and said, "If you kids don't start behaving, I will cancel this field trip before it starts, and don't think I won't". The misbehavior stopped.
Threatening a pop quiz can work in my worst classes. I tell them "If you're talking, you must know this...Take out a sheet of paper..." and I'll have them begging not to have he quiz. Of course I have to actually give a pop quiz often enough that the threat is real. Even if they don't care about getting into trouble, they don't want to deal with their peers being mad at them because they got a quiz.
Threatening a pop quiz can work in my worst classes. I tell them "If you're talking, you must know this...Take out a sheet of paper..." and I'll have them begging not to have he quiz. Of course I have to actually give a pop quiz often enough that the threat is real. Even if they don't care about getting into trouble, they don't want to deal with their peers being mad at them because they got a quiz.
As a friend of mine said, "You do what works". If you can find the issue that gets the kids angry enough at their peers to put pressure on them to behave, use it.
Things in your life are not always going to be tailored to your wants, needs, and preferences, green_mariner. Adapting and adjusting are essential skills.
There is adapting, and then there is being unfairly lumped in because of the actions of a few trouble makers who would have been making trouble anyway. If this is a team environment, why not punish the individuals who are making trouble for the team?
I remember chaperoning a group of first graders on a field trip to the local grocery store. Some kids were misbehaving, and the teacher stood in front of the store and said, "If you kids don't start behaving, I will cancel this field trip before it starts, and don't think I won't". The misbehavior stopped.
It may have worked. But these were six year old children. I believe that first graders are more obedient when confronted than 6th graders. Whenever children get old enough to think for themselves, they will be more defiant. How do I know this? I was once an adolescent.
As a friend of mine said, "You do what works". If you can find the issue that gets the kids angry enough at their peers to put pressure on them to behave, use it.
True. You have to do what works. However, sometimes it doesn't work. Some kids actually DON'T care what their peers think. I still think about when I was in school. Sometimes its better to separate the trouble makers from the decent students. Mass punishment might work for a temporary fix. However, this is what I have found. I never saw the point in punishing the whole for the actions of a few. Some students really don't care how mad their pupils get at them.
A lot of "I"s in there still. We get it, YOU want to be treated as an individual in every group situation. You want the benefits of community and the priviledge of individuality. I am totally onboard with what YOU WANT FOR YOU. OTOH, I don't care. I am responsible for more than just an individual, but multiple groups. I will use whatever discipline works best in each situation to reach all of my students. I will not remove a discipline technique that is successful just because YOU WANT YOUR WAY.
Fine, you have your experience of 12 years of school. I have those twelve years and pushing ten as a teacher. Mass discipline has its time and place to be used effectively. As a matter of fact I used the threat of it today to great success.
I know you don't care what I want. Mass discipline might have its place, but I often have me at the end of the day to think about. I do use alot of "I"s. I'm in alot of things for myself. School worked the same way for me. I had to be at school, so alot of things I did, I did for my own personal reasons. I viewed myself as someone who was forced to be with alot of kids I didn't want to be around.
g_m, I really don't understand your vociferous oppostion to judicious use of group punishment and your constant attempts to discredit what others who have used or seen this method have to say about it. For first graders, the threat of not going on the Safeway field trip worked. For an older group, something else would have worked. That was just an example. And yes, some kids don't care what the others think. Then you discipline that person. Just because once or twice you feel you were unfairly punished b/c of group punishment, that doesn't mean the method is useless.
A lot of "I"s in there still. We get it, YOU want to be treated as an individual in every group situation. You want the benefits of community and the priviledge of individuality. I am totally onboard with what YOU WANT FOR YOU. OTOH, I don't care. I am responsible for more than just an individual, but multiple groups. I will use whatever discipline works best in each situation to reach all of my students. I will not remove a discipline technique that is successful just because YOU WANT YOUR WAY.
Fine, you have your experience of 12 years of school. I have those twelve years and pushing ten as a teacher. Mass discipline has its time and place to be used effectively. As a matter of fact I used the threat of it today to great success.
It probably worked to get your immediate desired behavior, but as a teacher who has more experience than your ten years, you didn't get to see the long-term result of your mass discipline today. You began fostering mistrust in the minds of students who behave, and you gave away your power to those who didn't behave. Misbehavers today weilded the power to influence consequences for ALL students in your situation. They love it, getting good students punished for their behavior.
I agree that we must use "whatever discipline works best in each situation to reach all of my students". Unless all of your students misbehaved, mass discipline doesn't fit your description of what is "best".
In my nearly 20 years of teaching, I can identify very few situations where mass discipline was appropriate or effective. It is definitely easy for a teacher. Classroom management that prevents misbehavior is much more effective than trying to band-aid out-of-control students after the fact.
It probably worked to get your immediate desired behavior, but as a teacher who has more experience than your ten years, you didn't get to see the long-term result of your mass discipline today. You began fostering mistrust in the minds of students who behave, and you gave away your power to those who didn't behave. Misbehavers today weilded the power to influence consequences for ALL students in your situation. They love it, getting good students punished for their behavior.
I agree that we must use "whatever discipline works best in each situation to reach all of my students". Unless all of your students misbehaved, mass discipline doesn't fit your description of what is "best".
In my nearly 20 years of teaching, I can identify very few situations where mass discipline was appropriate or effective. It is definitely easy for a teacher. Classroom management that prevents misbehavior is much more effective than trying to band-aid out-of-control students after the fact.
Very few does not equal never.
And personally, I could careless how long you have been teaching. My mentor has 32 years in, her opinion differs from yours. You can play the "whose been teaching longer" game all you want. The only reason I brought up my years of teaching was to contrast it to someone whose only opinion was that of a admittedly self obsessed student.
I teach, I am exceedingly effective at it. My classroom management is such that I have been asked to mentor 3 student teachers.
The thing is, I know, with far less experience than you, that no discipline technique works for ALL students exactly the same way no single teaching method works for all students. It is silly to state that there is some magical discipline technique that works for ALL students. And yes, I have used mass discipline to great success, at least two or three times in my career. I likely will use it again. Last week it worked really well. I was working one on one with a student in the back of the lab while my class ran a review session I wrote for them. A bunch of them where "chatting" too many for me to immediately tell who was and who was not. As my one on one student was about to reach the break through point I was not going to stop working with her, so I told my class if I heard chatting one more time they would not be finishing their group review. Worked like a charm. And I seriously doubt I lost the "trust" of any one of them.
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