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I think that group punishment is not a good idea because I believe the teacher could lose respect and credibility especially when the punishment is unexpected.
The only time I can see group punishment working is the way Julia described because it is expected as part of a classroom routine. It is for safety issues. The expected behavior is known as well as the consequences for not following directions.
I think that some people feel like whatever a teacher does is the wrong thing, and they would have done something different, something "better", especially if it concerns their child.
I think that some people feel like whatever a teacher does is the wrong thing, and they would have done something different, something "better", especially if it concerns their child.
How would you jump to such a conclusion based on what I wrote here?
You would be WRONG. One thing that I noticed when I was teaching is that any time a parent stands up for their child the teacher is very quick to label the parent as crazy, a troublemaker, etc....A parent that feels a teacher has done one thing wrong is just standing up for their child.
You would be WRONG. One thing that I noticed when I was teaching is that any time a parent stands up for their child the teacher is very quick to label the parent as crazy, a troublemaker, etc....A parent that feels a teacher has done one thing wrong is just standing up for their child.
I suppose I could be. Maybe so. That's fine.
All I know, speaking as a parent and a teacher, there is a fine line between a supportive parent and one who is enabling helplessness. I'm not saying that you are the latter, I'm speaking generally. A little hardship and unfairness is good for kids. It teaches them about the reality of life, something that I'm afraid will be missing in generations of kids to come who will be blessed with ever more overprotective helicopter parents.
All I know, speaking as a parent and a teacher, there is a fine line between a supportive parent and one who is enabling helplessness.
I agree with your statement. One of the reasons that I feel that a parent should stand up for their kids in the face of mass punishment is that I feel that mass punishment makes kids feel helpless. It makes them feel that no matter what they do they are being punished for the actions of someone else. They need another adult to advocate on their behalf.
There are certainly times a student needs to take care of his own issues. My kids play sports and are in musical ensembles that travel. They need to arrange for alternate times to take tests, hand in assignments, obtain handouts. They need to arrange their labs around their music/sports schedules (most teachers have multiple lab days). All those things are things that students should absolutely do for themselves.
In the past 7 years I have had to help one of my sons reschedule ONE thing and that was an unusual situation. I agree that kids should not be taught to depend on their parents to arrange everything in their life. However, in the case of mass punishments the kids actually are helpless.
I agree with your statement. One of the reasons that I feel that a parent should stand up for their kids in the face of mass punishment is that I feel that mass punishment makes kids feel helpless. It makes them feel that no matter what they do they are being punished for the actions of someone else. They need another adult to advocate on their behalf.
There are certainly times a student needs to take care of his own issues. My kids play sports and are in musical ensembles that travel. They need to arrange for alternate times to take tests, hand in assignments, obtain handouts. They need to arrange their labs around their music/sports schedules (most teachers have multiple lab days). All those things are things that students should absolutely do for themselves.
In the past 7 years I have had to help one of my sons reschedule ONE thing and that was an unusual situation. I agree that kids should not be taught to depend on their parents to arrange everything in their life. However, in the case of mass punishments the kids actually are helpless.
WOW.
Just WOW.
At my school the expectation is that students are in school first and foremost for academic reasons. There would never be the expectation that labs, tests, etc be rearranged so kids can do sports or play in a band. How is that remotely fair that your child gets to take the test on a different day? To me that is just ridiculous.
Make ups are only allowed for medical reasons, with a doctors note. If a child told me they were missing my quiz or test for an EXTRACURRICULAR reason, I would give them a zero. It is not an excused absence in any school I have ever taught in.
Tomorrow, I am going to go in and tell my students how much I appreciate them and their attitude towards school. They ASK if it is possible to miss my class for anything extracurricular, and if I have a test or lab that day, they do not go, and do not complain about it.
At my school the expectation is that students are in school first and foremost for academic reasons. There would never be the expectation that labs, tests, etc be rearranged so kids can do sports or play in a band. How is that remotely fair that your child gets to take the test on a different day? To me that is just ridiculous.
What do they do at your school when a child has to miss class for a school related activity? For instance, both of my sons made All County Orchestra. There was an all day rehearsal on the day of the concert. It involved all schools, public, private and charter in the entire county. Students are permitted to miss class for school activities.
Lots of sports teams have to leave school early. So does debate, drama, music, etc.....How do they handle that at your school? Do they never have school related activities that require students to leave during the day? It's common around here and every public, private and charter school has this happen.
I just don't understand. How does the school handle it when things like that happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
Make ups are only allowed for medical reasons, with a doctors note. If a child told me they were missing my quiz or test for an EXTRACURRICULAR reason, I would give them a zero. It is not an excused absence in any school I have ever taught in.
So what happens when a student is on a school related activity and has to be out of school? They just fail their work for the day?
My youngest son won the National History Day competition for his school. He is competing at the district level on March 1. He will be leaving, along with all the kids that are participating in districts at 9AM and will miss all his classes that day.
My oldest son is on the wrestling team, football team, and lacrosse team. They sometimes leave school early depending on where an event is and when it is being held. These are considered excused absences from class. The work is still due. Tests must be taken. But they are excused from class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
Tomorrow, I am going to go in and tell my students how much I appreciate them and their attitude towards school. They ASK if it is possible to miss my class for anything extracurricular, and if I have a test or lab that day, they do not go, and do not complain about it.
This is not an attitude issue. The kids don't make the schedules for the sports teams so that they can irritate the teachers. If a kid is on a team and the team has to leave early the kid is excused. It's not a free for all. The kid can't just decide he's not going to class. I am not talking about practices but rather games, which the kids don't schedule. Practices are held after school.
Our school does not do labs during class time. They are scheduled after school and students are assigned certain days. Most athletes just get to practice late on days they have labs. The school is a private, college prep school full of over acheivers. The kids take school seriously and do not blow off their labs for practice.
If they have a game on their scheduled lab day they have to get together with the teacher to figure out what other day they can do the lab. Most teachers have a whole bunch of different days, some even on Saturday morning. However, they cannot just show up, they have to make arrangements with the teacher to make sure there is space for them. My sons are both are heavily involved in school activities and have not had problems rescheduling things.
Most of the time if they need to take a test/quiz at a different time they do it at lunchtime (most early dismissals are after lunch) or during the teacher's regularly scheduled extra help times. If the teacher has a class during a student's independent (free) hour sometimes they just take the test with the other class. My kids have even gone in early to take tests.
It has truly not ever been a problem at our school. I think you are thinking that kids just blow off school to go to wrestling. That's not what happens. But there are lots of school related activities that happen during school hours.
Ivory - a trip to the doctor would solve your and your daughters problems... and might even save you some money.
I have never been a teacher so what do I know but I would view it as unfair if my kid was punished for something some other kid did.
I believe people should be respected as individuals. It's one thing if the teacher doesn't know who did it, but it's quite another when they do.
If one teacher messes up - should all the teachers be punished?
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but I would view it as unfair if my kid was punished for something some other kid did.
