Why is it that teachers have more rights than students? (SAT, counselors)
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I am a 10th grade student at a public school in Milwaukee. Got a question and a rant for you.
NOTE: This is not a rant dictating why I don't like school.
I've read this online, and learned this based on the staff handbook and how my teachers have been reacting to students.
It appears that teachers have more rights than students. The rights are not given by the Constitution, they're given by their individual school or school district.
Yes, they do have more rights than the students. Teachers are adults and students are children, and until students are of legal age, they will have fewer rights. As for your claim that "the rights are not given by the Constitution," the distinction between the rights afforded to adults and the rights afforded to children has been upheld consistently by the Supreme Court.
Furthermore, the Supreme Court has also consistently upheld the right of the schools and its teachers to act in loco parentis -- the idea that the school can and should act "in the place of a parent." If student actions violate or threaten the central goal of education, schools have a right to prevent those acts, at least in many cases.
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They have the right to yell at you for even the first slightest offense you make such as walking around before class starts, coming to the principal's office without a pass, unintentionally breaking the rules, etc.
If I were to unintentionally exceed the speed limit, I would still be liable for a ticket if I were stopped by a police officer. It's that old idea that "ignorance of the law is no excuse."
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They don't have to apologize for being rude, or say 'please' and 'thank you' because these school officials believe that just because they're adults, they are better than students.
There is a number of things I disagree with about this statement.
Firstly, basically giving teachers more rights (or telling students that they have more rights) could interfere with the number of students who actually 'want' to get an education. Why would anyone want to be educated by a stubborn teacher who thinks they have more authority just because they're 'grown' and get paid to do so? Believe it or not, it's actually increases the number of drop-outs there are.
How about because that same teacher worked to earn a degree either in education, in his or her major content area, or in both -- and because that teacher has earned whatever experience s/he has earned through the course of his or her employment? Moreover, it's not that teachers "think" they have more authority. They do.
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Secondly, I am sick of all the 'I'm an adult' bullcrap some of these teachers are saying. Plus, if you were to post a rant complaining about teachers on a forum, almost all of them is going to disagree (which most of you are going to do now). Why is it that people expect children to treat them respectfully when they can't respect them in return?
Students have to earn it.
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So just because you're an adult, you should have more rights than children?
I've been in school for 12-16 years and have experienced this with 3 teachers, 2 administrators, a crisis stabilizor, a supervisor, and the people on this forum.
Be thankful you weren't a student decades ago, when students had even fewer rights than they do now, and when teachers had much more leeway in disciplinary matters. If you don't like being yelled at and verbally disrespected (and who does?), at least be glad you don't have to deal with corporal punishment and other controlling tactics that used to be sanctioned in many schools.
This is not to say you're completely wrong: there should be a protocol of mutual respect between teachers and students. Teachers should serve as role models to their students by demonstrating courtesy, benefit of the doubt, and other attitudes that encourage engagement rather than alienation.
On the other hand, teachers have legally lost a lot of authority and power over the past few decades. It's a good thing that teachers are prohibited from spanking kids in class, slapping them, boxing their ears, etc., but in many cases teachers are also prohibited from doing other things--issuing commands, making legal/administrative statements for classroom management, kicking students out of class, etc.--that underscore the fact that teachers are, or ought to be, the authorities and managers of the classroom. Nowadays, the tiniest slight toward a student can result in the teacher being questioned by scared administrators wishing to downplay anything resembling controversy or bad PR. The result is that teachers are routinely undermined, and in some classrooms the students call the shots. This is disgraceful.
But don't worry--if current trends continue, in a few decades more classrooms will be like little democracies where the students get to vote on how to behave, what to study, and so on. As it is, many teachers are regarded as mere "facilitators" in a classroom: they have to promote the idea that all students are wonderful, creative, "gifted" people with ideas that are just as good as the ideas held by older folks with college and graduate education. This sort of mentality is visible in various public as well as private schools, and it spans across all types of school districts. What I hope students and their parents and other people can come to realize is that education is not a democracy: the teacher should be able to exercise authority within established protocols, and the students should respect that process. But education is not a dictatorship, either: teachers and administrators need to listen to the students and engage them without sacrificing the foundations of the institution.
In the meantime, students can and do respond to perceived or real disrespect from teachers in a variety of ways. I bet many students return the disrespect--an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I wonder how many students are able to transcend that and actually "turn the other cheek"--that is, show themselves to be more adult-like than the adults themselves?
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Originally Posted by marcus903
I am a 10th grade student at a public school in Milwaukee. Got a question and a rant for you.
NOTE: This is not a rant dictating why I don't like school.
I've read this online, and learned this based on the staff handbook and how my teachers have been reacting to students.
It appears that teachers have more rights than students. The rights are not given by the Constitution, they're given by their individual school or school district.
They have the right to yell at you for even the first slightest offense you make such as walking around before class starts, coming to the principal's office without a pass, unintentionally breaking the rules, etc.
They don't have to apologize for being rude, or say 'please' and 'thank you' because these school officials believe that just because they're adults, they are better than students.
There is a number of things I disagree with about this statement.
Firstly, basically giving teachers more rights (or telling students that they have more rights) could interfere with the number of students who actually 'want' to get an education. Why would anyone want to be educated by a stubborn teacher who thinks they have more authority just because they're 'grown' and get paid to do so? Believe it or not, it's actually increases the number of drop-outs there are.
Secondly, I am sick of all the 'I'm an adult' bullcrap some of these teachers are saying. Plus, if you were to post a rant complaining about teachers on a forum, almost all of them is going to disagree (which most of you are going to do now). Why is it that people expect children to treat them respectfully when they can't respect them in return? So just because you're an adult, you should have more rights than children? I understand you don't want students telling you what to do, but if you learn to accept constructive criticism, then you will understand why they do what they do.
Lastly, I've stated this a billion of times. I don't get WHY teachers don't have to say 'please' and 'thank you' to students of whom they are in charge. This is also why I believe some students drop out. And then they expect students to say 'please' and 'thank you' to them? Do you even realize that just blurting out a loud demand even after the first slightest offense is rude? And then they expect the students not to be rude in return? Seriously, get your act together, please!
I don't care what powers you have, what position you are, how old you are, or what your particular age group is; you have no more rights than children. If they don't have the right to yell at you, you don't have the right to yell at them. If they can't be a rude prick after only the first minor offense, then you shouldn't either. If you're going to be a rude prick, then at least be one if they are breaking a severe offense or they need multiple cues to do what they are supposed to.
I know some of you are going to disagree with this. Most likely because you're an adult who still thinks teachers should have more rights than students. But frankly, I don't care because you guys are just selfish people who thinks you're special just because you're over 18 and working through a contract. I've been in school for 12-16 years and have experienced this with 3 teachers, 2 administrators, a crisis stabilizor, a supervisor, and the people on this forum.
Last edited by Empidonax; 03-03-2012 at 12:49 PM..
I'd like to ask ALL posters to reply with respect towards each other. Let's assume that people on THIS board are parents similar to you, that we don't treat our children like they are "princes and princesses" and that we respect teachers. Let's assume that the teachers are doing their job because they want to help their students. This is not the place to bash each other. Let's show the OP that we all understand courtesy and respect. Constructive Criticism should be this forum's byword
I don't think the problem should be that teachers are doing their job, I think the problem is that there are too many people on this forum who get easily offended over what other people say.
People replying in this thread seems to think that I truly dislike my teachers, which is false. I have several teachers who I love and care for. They are the ones who actually respects their students as if they ARE their children.
The point of this thread was to dictate how teachers should treat their students. While this thread may be easily disagreed with, people seem to take it very seriously as if I actually were talking about every teacher in the world.
Looking at my original post, you should've known that I had VERY few teachers who rudely yell at me and other students. So I don't get what makes all of you believe that most of my teachers do the same. It may seem like it, but this is actually targeted at the education system nationwide.
Also, rudely telling me that I should stop acting like a 2nd grader is not going to help at all. Just because someone is in 10th grade doesn't mean they are going to act like they are in 10th grade; they are just expected to act mature. Me being in 10th grade only shows my progress, not maturity.
Yes, half of you are right. I should just suck it up, deal with it, prepare for college, and get ready for life. The other half is just taking me too seriously, unaware that this is the internet. If I am a 'troll', then you shouldn't be feeding me.
Just bashing me and telling me to stop acting like I'm 7 years old is not going to help anything. I appreciate half of the people in this thread for explaining to me the flaws on the OP nicely and clearly.
If you wish to not be told you're acting like a 2nd grader then stop acting like one. A 10th grader is old enough, or soon will be, to drive a car on the public highways of most states.
So, you're NOT generalizing across all of YOUR teachers, then (since you note that the majority are very respectful)...Your generalizing is directed toward "the education system nationwide," just not most of your own teachers? Bizarre, and not a well thought out argument.
... I have several teachers who I love and care for. They are the ones who actually respects their students as if they ARE their children.
The point of this thread was to dictate how teachers should treat their students...
I think it's good that you brought it up, Marcus.
Most of the teacher's I've known have been fine, some incredibly awesome!
Some in authority use their authority to put down others to make themselves feel better.
Some in authority mean well, but go about showing their concern in unhelpful ways.
As a parent & teacher, I've been in situations that tested my patience to the max & sometimes I've handled it well, sometimes not.
We're all works in progress, and sometimes it helps to be reminded of how some progress can be made.
If you wish to not be told you're acting like a 2nd grader then stop acting like one. A 10th grader is old enough, or soon will be, to drive a car on the public highways of most states.
Again, telling me to stop acting like a 2nd grader is not helping at all. What you're saying is an expectation, not a absolute fact.
So, you're NOT generalizing across all of YOUR teachers, then (since you note that the majority are very respectful)...Your generalizing is directed toward "the education system nationwide," just not most of your own teachers? Bizarre, and not a well thought out argument.
I'm also not saying that every teacher in the whole country or globe is rude.
What exactly ARE you talking about, other than the fact that you, personally, apparently had three rude teachers and a few other assorted educational personnel in all your years of schooling? Why are you trying to blow this into a large scale issue affecting "nationwide education" (you said it, not me)? A very small percentage of the educational professionals you have interacted with have in your opinion not afforded you the respect you felt you were due...this seems like a nonissue. Why the mountains out of molehills? Some people are less than polite. it's life.
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