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Good for your kid and school. In many other public schools you have 14 year olds not knowing what 5x5 is because they didn't have to memorize their times table. Math books are never seen..they get handouts instead.
And according to the previous posts, Waldorf Schools in SV have no computers. So add that to the list of what kids can't do.
If 14 yo's can do simple multiplication, or have math books, I would be out of that school district faster than sh** through a goose. If I couldn't afford to move out, well, then I am SOL, and would do as much education for a student as I can, myself.
Not exactly sure what your statements have to do with Waldorf schools in SV having no computers. If parents are not an integral part of a student's education.... well....
I don't have any personal experience with Waldorf schools, but I do have strong feelings about the validity of technology use in k-8 education. Generally, I think it's a giant mistake. I do not believe computers in the classroom improve educational outcomes for our youngest students, nor do they make teaching easier. Technology implementation and maintenance are a huge financial burden for many school districts. Even in my very affluent district, we struggle to pay the salary of a part-time IT employee who is just barely competent to keep our computer labs functional.
So what about the kids? Mostly they're glued to mobile entertainment devices and gaming systems, and they're not playing "educational" games. If you want go get a conversation going, just mention that you're worried about your child's use of electronic media to a group of other parents and then stand back!
Several years ago, we were a mostly electronic media-free household with one shared computer, and then one Christmas we bought a flat-screen TV. A Netflix subscription and Wii soon followed. Then came the iPod Touches and smartphones. I watched with sadness as our entire family retreated from each other and became electronic media addicts. It was truly stunning.
Unfortunately, once Pandora's box was opened, it was difficult to close, but we gave our best shot. The smartphones have been traded in for standard versions. The TV and Netflix are only available for viewing on Friday and Saturday evening. The iPods are gone. It was tough, but my children have rediscovered the joy of family and community life.
Back to education and technology, the idea that children will somehow be missing out if computers aren't a part of their education is true, but not in the way Apple would have us believe. K-8 students do not need access to computers to learn what is essential at that stage: how to read, write, and calculate competently. These are unchanging foundational skills best taught by a teacher, not a computer. The longer we delay exposure to electronic media, the better able our children will be to use these tools with discernment. If Waldorf schools are helping families to awaken to the detrimental effects of virtual life for children (and many adults), then more power to them.
When I hear people talk about the information super highway, it will become possible to shop at home, and bank at home, and get your texts at home, and get your entertainment at home, so I often wonder if this doesn't signify the end of any community life. -- Neil Postman
We were taught how to build computers when we were kids.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 03-22-2012 at 03:41 PM..
Reason: removed rude comment
I rejoice that I didn't grow up in your household. We were taught how to build computers when we were kids.
Not everyone shares your opinion. I'm a software engineer and as geeky as they come but my son was only allowed to use a 4 function calculator when he did his homework. No graphing calculator. And where did he learn to graph linear equations ? Why at home with graph paper because it was NOT taught in his Algebra class...no need to as every student had a graphing calculator.
We were taught how to build computers when we were kids.
It might surprise you to know that my husband is a senior software developer who first laid hands on a computer as college student. He strongly agrees that computers are unnecessary for and sometimes a hindrance to effective k-8 education.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 03-22-2012 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: removed orphaned post
Not everyone shares your opinion. I'm a software engineer and as geeky as they come but my son was only allowed to use a 4 function calculator when he did his homework. No graphing calculator. And where did he learn to graph linear equations ? Why at home with graph paper because it was NOT taught in his Algebra class...no need to as every student had a graphing calculator.
Then I must say, teaching him at home was a good idea. On the other hand, your school system is very suspect. The finest thing you can ever give your children is a good education.
In her (and my school long ago), they use Halliday & Resnick Physics books, and that is before college. (Geez, the price has gone up a little for textbooks since my era).
I must admit, teaching a student how to use log-log, or log-linear graph paper brings back a lot of memories. (We'll save the Smith charts for college )
She has a graphing calculator, and that is fine, because what matters is understanding how the curve is generated, not placing dots on a piece of green graph paper, and using a curve to draw the line(s).
When you set up an Excel spreadsheet, do you worry more about having your equations correct (and proper links to other cells) and understanding what you are doing, or what the processor is putting in the accumulator or A/B registers or whatever the architecture is?
The complex problems I have had to solve (let's put some NP-complete aside), I could either spend days doing the derivation (yes, paper and pencil), or, use a PC (or a cluster of them), write a simple program, and do an exhaustive search (if it is tough enough, a game tree). So I don't know the ideal algorithm. Nor do I care. It is a means to an end. While I agree that all students should understand the fundamentals, often in the real world (work smarter, not harder) tends to dominate. One of the most important things they should learn is being able to give an assessment for an answer (say it is a math problem; does it 'look right'? i.e make sense, correct order of magnitude, etc). Estimation.
Computers are an integral part of everyone's lives (well, maybe not if you are Amish). Live with it.
It might surprise you to know that my husband is a senior software developer who first laid hands on a computer as college student. He strongly agrees that computers are unnecessary for and sometimes a hindrance to effective k-8 education.
Doesn't matter what he does. I had 160 senior, principal, consulting and doctorate fellows in the software industry working for me. Who cares.
We were given computers (or built a few from scratch) to learn how they work, and to learn how to live in a modern society with an up-and-coming technology. We did have one video game (an Atari 2600), but that was so we could take it apart to see how it worked. (We did figure out how to clone all the video games for it, using an HP Pisces).
What scared me is my nieces and nephews could run circles around me utilizing the technical aspects of a computer, and I have been using them for decades longer than they have.
If the SO thinks that a computer is a hindrance, then perhaps he never should have learned how to program.
The vast majority of children are not writing code when they retreat to their rooms with iPods in hand: they're watching Youtube and playing Zombies vs. Plants. I have come to believe that the longer we delay our children's exposure to the passive entertainment of electronic media, the more discernment they will develop regarding the use of computers as tools, and I support the Waldorf philosophy in this regard. Computers are not effective replacements for the didactic teacher-child relationship. You may see me as a Luddite, but I see myself as a realist who wants my children to grow into well-rounded, intellectually curious individuals apart from the distraction of electronic media until they are older. Unfortunately, I believe we introduced it too early, and we are now reaping the consequences of that decision.
Regarding "If the SO thinks that a computer is a hindrance, then perhaps he never should have learned how to program," there is no reason to be insulting. He is concerned about the use of computers in k-8 education specifically, not the the use of computer technology in general.
Last edited by randomparent; 03-22-2012 at 02:25 PM..
The vast majority of children are not writing code when they retreat to their rooms with iPods in hand: they're watching Youtube and playing Zombies vs. Plants.
Let's see... who allows that....?
I believe the longer we delay our children's exposure to the passive entertainment of electronic media, the more discernment they will develop regarding the use of computers as tools, and I support the Waldorf philosophy in this regard.
We never had 'passive entertainment', as the ADULTS in the household wanted us to learn.
Computers are not effective replacements for the didactic teacher-child relationship.
They have nothing to do with being a 'replacement'. They have to do with teaching new technology.
You may see me as a Luddite, but I see myself as a realist who wants my children to grow into well-rounded, intellectually curious individuals apart from the distraction of electronic media until they are older.
The girl here uses her PC (Well MAC, to my dismay) for writing term papers, researching topics (from reliable sources), and at the moment, researching colleges. Not exactly 'passive entertainment'.
'Well rounded and intellectually curious'. That is what my grandparents did, my parents did to me and my siblings, and what I am doing. Looks like another MD/PhD on the way here... geez, how many do we need?
Unfortunately, I believe we introduced it too early, and we are now reaping the consequences of that decision.
You have absolute control over it.
Regarding "If the SO thinks that a computer is a hindrance, then perhaps he never should have learned how to program," there is no reason to be insulting. He is concerned about the use of computers in k-8 education specifically, not the the use of computer technology in general.
My nephew could program at 12 yo... I don't exactly think that is a 'bad thing'. Just scares me a little, as he can learn faster than I can.
Mine in red.
No insult intended. Just sense a little bit of hypocrisy.
Easy. The technical area that has made your husband successful, you don't want your kids exposed to until after 8th grade.
Well, time will tell.
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