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Old 03-30-2012, 04:11 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,691,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansProof View Post
I never said jocks can't be smart; that is a complete assumption. But as far as fat kids being athletes...anyone can be an athlete. All one has to do is be a participant in any given sport or activity requiring a put forth of physical effort. The misassumption that "athlete" means anyone particularly superior is wrong...or at the very least, half wrong...by definition. Now to say they can be superior athletes, over-competent athletes, great-excellent athletes, etc. then I say no, they can not be...from a pure health standpoint.

6:43 mile is nothing to be ashamed of. You earned a B for being "above average." A little more training and you might break the 6:30 barrier to earn an A for "excellence." Then you can rejoice in the fact that the A actually meant something. My entire point in this entire thread being gym is NOT taken seriously in the US and it should be. Ran a quick google search and 68% of Americans are overweight. Insane. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in America and yet anything to rectify it is not taken seriously. Then this kid ball-and-chains my health insurance premiums to unreal rates for supposed pre-existing conditions that were never suppose to be. I take issue with things that affect me.
So you Would drop my grade a whole letter grade for 13 seconds that's unrealistic bottom line is gym is not like every other class. Gym is mandatory in order to promote physical activity not to become an Olympic medalist. I'm sorry that you weren't good at math. Most of the posts you have written go back to you doing bad in math the requirement to pass math is to do your work an understand the material the gym requirement is o show up, change and participate and if understand what you're supposed to be doing and do it you pass. Point blank.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,639 posts, read 18,127,435 times
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Throughout middle and high school (2 years required, 1/2 a year was classroom lessons in health / sex ed), PE was graded on a normal A-F scale, but didn't count towards your GPA...however, you had to pass it to be promoted, if I remember correctly.

School should be primarily about developing the mind, not the physique. I think my school took the right approach.

By the way, I ran a mile in 10:40 in 9th grade and 12:30 in 10th grade.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:48 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,449,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Throughout middle and high school (2 years required, 1/2 a year was classroom lessons in health / sex ed), PE was graded on a normal A-F scale, but didn't count towards your GPA...however, you had to pass it to be promoted, if I remember correctly.

School should be primarily about developing the mind, not the physique. I think my school took the right approach.

By the way, I ran a mile in 10:40 in 9th grade and 12:30 in 10th grade.

School should be about developing everything in a growing child/young adult. Some of my engineers (in their 50's) can run a mile in 6-7 minutes. Some have a heart rate in the 50's (sets off patient monitors). As an aside, they also are brilliant, but that is not the topic of this thread.

If you want to get really depressed, go to some place like DisneyWorld, and see the number of overweight, obese, or morbidly obese people in this country. Well, at least it helps keep Social Security solvent.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:12 AM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,054,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Solution: Stop giving out grades in elementary school PE - just make it pass or fail until high school and then make it an elective.
This. I have asthma and that kept me from being able to excel in a lot of sports. There were some things I could do well (swimming was ironically one of them) but anything that required a lot of running or having my hands held vertically over my head (chin ups, ropes, etc.) induced an asthma attack, and that was the end of that. Gym should be pass/fail based on effort, and nothing else. Especially in elementary school where it should be lessons in sportsmanship over and above pure athletic ability.

I'm not a rah rah cheerleader every kid gets a ribbon type, but I don't see this as an entitlement situation, because a kid CAN fail if they don't at least try.

And they should offer alternate activities for kids with asthma or disabilities--for example yoga is something that can be done by anyone.

By the way, I'm now in my 50's, walk 2-4 miles and practice yoga for 30 minutes a day, eat healthy, am 5'6" and wear a size 6, and still can't run a freaking quarter mile without having an asthma attack. That said, I'm far more fit than most of the "jocks" I went to school with who have become obese and who haven't exercised since they got out of college.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:39 PM
 
2,953 posts, read 2,901,347 times
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Maybe what we need then is remedial gym classes for those with conditions or those a little more earthly bound than others. Theoretically someone in special education could graduate at the top of ones graduating class...doesn't mean much though.

Whether fat kids actually try or not is a complete opinion. I don't necessarily consider trying succeeding. A kid can try all he wants but if he can't huff 50ft without weezing in a class soccer game, he brings down the experience of all. If he really wants that A, enroll in "special gym"

It was well known in my school the kids stacked the gym classes. I took a lot more from the gym experience being surrounded by other jocks than waiting on the fat kid walking to wrangle back a rogue out-of-bounds ball. The activities could get boring fast if the competition was so out of shape as so to offer absolutely no challenge at all.

And why this misnomer of trying? Finishing the mile in gym with tunnel vision and a collapse on the track lawn is "trying." Can't really recall any fat one's trying that hard. Jogging the last 200 yards is not trying and certainly not worth of any exceptional grade.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:54 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,054,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansProof View Post
Maybe what we need then is remedial gym classes for those with conditions or those a little more earthly bound than others. Theoretically someone in special education could graduate at the top of ones graduating class...doesn't mean much though.

Whether fat kids actually try or not is a complete opinion. I don't necessarily consider trying succeeding. A kid can try all he wants but if he can't huff 50ft without weezing in a class soccer game, he brings down the experience of all. If he really wants that A, enroll in "special gym"

It was well known in my school the kids stacked the gym classes. I took a lot more from the gym experience being surrounded by other jocks than waiting on the fat kid walking to wrangle back a rogue out-of-bounds ball. The activities could get boring fast if the competition was so out of shape as so to offer absolutely no challenge at all.

And why this misnomer of trying? Finishing the mile in gym with tunnel vision and a collapse on the track lawn is "trying." Can't really recall any fat one's trying that hard. Jogging the last 200 yards is not trying and certainly not worth of any exceptional grade.
So you're putting the kid with asthma or cancer in the same category as the kid who ate his way to obesity before third grade? Now I remember why I always thought most jocks were inherent morons. You just proved my theory right.

And like I said, I'm in much better shape than the majority of the "jocks" I graduated with 30 some years ago. They for the most part have turned into the "fat kids" you seem to have such disdain for. I might not be able to run a quarter mile, but at least I can walk three miles briskly without getting winded--something I can't say about most of them.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:38 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,183,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansProof View Post
I don't necessarily consider trying succeeding.
Proof that you aren't a true athlete. And you certainly don't THINK like an athlete.

That's not their attitude. They appreciate the efforts of their fellow athletes.

Faster. Higher. Stronger.

Yet at the end of the Olympics all of the athletes enter the stadium together for the closing ceremonies. The gold medalists link arms with the also-rans. The effort itself is considered a win.

Reading your posts it's quite clear you don't interact with elite athletes. They NEVER have your attitude. Ever. (With all your huffing and puffing and the "better then thou" attitude of your initial post I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong. But this is it. You don't think like an athlete. The TRUE jocks aren't condescending or patronizing toward "lesser beings". They don't have to be. They let their success speak for itself.)

Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-31-2012 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:33 PM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,449,469 times
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Proof that you aren't a true athlete. And you certainly don't THINK like an athlete.

That implies that everyone thinks a true athlete has a valuable skill. Granted, my ability to sink a basketball through a hoop at the 3-point line is probably a million to one, but the only value added to society is the same as the gladiatorial games in Rome.

That's not their attitude. They appreciate the efforts of their fellow athletes.

Faster. Higher. Stronger.

Yet at the end of the Olympics all of the athletes enter the stadium together for the closing ceremonies. The gold medalists link arms with the also-rans. The effort itself is considered a win.

I would rather watch re-runs of the Three Stooges, or Family Guy. More insightful.

Reading your posts it's quite clear you don't interact with elite athletes. They NEVER have your attitude. Ever. (With all your huffing and puffing and the "better then thou" attitude of your initial post I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong. But this is it. You don't think like an athlete. The TRUE jocks aren't condescending or patronizing toward "lesser beings". They don't have to be. They let their success speak for itself.)

Many don't think like an athlete, as they consider the only value-added is to please the masses sitting in bars. Try making a major contribution to society/humanity, and then maybe someone will listen.

Mine in red.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:47 PM
 
2,953 posts, read 2,901,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Proof that you aren't a true athlete. And you certainly don't THINK like an athlete.

That's not their attitude. They appreciate the efforts of their fellow athletes.

Faster. Higher. Stronger.
I think like a competitive athlete not your weekend "walk for a cure" athlete (no offense to the post-mentioned). In the competitive world, it is fairly black and white, one wins or they don't. Whether my opponent trained lesser, similar or harder than I is really unconcerning hearsay. To be frank, I don't care. All I care about is being faster and stronger than them, to destroy them at whatever the given task.

So when is the last time you saw an olympic runner pass another and mumble, "hey keep up the good work Joe?" Just a better analogy. The only point where any kind of effort is acknowledged is only after competition and that's only good sportsmanship. That is the appropriate time to be humble and reassuring. If you think any world class athlete is standing on the line pre-game/pre-race thinking, "Wow, I feel such a deep appreciation to play along side such talent" you're wrong. More like "Haha...I'm going kill these jokes!" And this shows not through humble friendly smiles, but the emotionless, ice cold game face intermittently interrupted by small facial cues of rage. Because to be the best, you must have the tenacious thought you actually are the best.
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:42 PM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,530,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansProof View Post
Of course not.

I was eating my Reese's Puffs this morning watching the news and saw a young man just about ready to graduate HS at the top of his class mention that he has had nothing but straight A's since the sixth grade? How is this possible? How can this guy who was quite overweight ace gym class??? "A" for effort?

Where was my "A" for effort in Calculus? Spent many a night doing homework till near midnight. My lesson wasn't in the simple C grade I received but a far more valuable lesson in life I took away from it. Life isn't fair, deal with it. I'm genetically dispositioned to be mildly retarded I suppose but I get by...and have done well for myself.

Out in the "real world" I wish I was hired for my education but quickly found it was more my personality as well as looks that were more advantageous. Am I wrong here? Any other experiences? And I'm in the position where I hire other employees and I like to see healthy individuals because in my mind I connect that with ambition, high spirits, intelligence, as well as self-control. If you can't even control your own body, one person, how are you going to control many? And how will those men/women see you and will they respect you? Whether this is true or not doesn't matter, it is the idea of it that will prevent a foot in the door.

I remember when I was in middle school (6-8) and our gym teacher flat out said it was impossible for any boy or girl to get an A who didn't make it to the top of the rope, over two stories up. I mean we had to climb up and slap the rafter of the gym. Didn't make it in the 6th grade but did in the 7th along with only a few others. Why? Because most nights after school before the buses arrived, I would do pull-ups in the gym. And that simple rope challenge set me on a lifelong course for healthy living and physical development. Our gym teacher didn't care about all the PC at the time, he laid it out how it was and stuck to his guns despite all the parental pressure...and I respect him for that.

Just my opinion but I think a 6:30 mile for a HS student is a very reasonable request for an "Excellence" grade. That IS what the grade stands for "Excellence." Not impossible but with work, achievable. Now I know it may be forever impossible for 5'0 tall cankle girl but thats life.
As interesting as it is to decide whether the OP is or is not a true athlete, that's not really on-topic for the education forum. Let's try to keep this conversation about kids and PE.
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