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OK, let’s try to get this back on tract here, the discussion started on the subject of low test scores in comparison to other countries. We are not talking about religion, or politics, or sex. As far as I know none of those things are deteriorating our ability as a nation to compete in the world market.
And can we stop with this myth that the US is falling behind other countries? When adjusting for SES, the US does better than almost every other country in the world on these all-important standardized tests. The US is one of the most diverse countries in the world with a higher poverty rate than most of the countries we've supposedly fallen behind. There are some other big problems with trying to compare this country with other countries based on the test scores.
And can we stop with this myth that the US is falling behind other countries? When adjusting for SES, the US does better than almost every other country in the world on these all-important standardized tests. The US is one of the most diverse countries in the world with a higher poverty rate than most of the countries we've supposedly fallen behind. There are some other big problems with trying to compare this country with other countries based on the test scores.
One problem, the world doesn't adjust for SES when competing. You're either good or you're not. We're not. We have a shortage of technical talent. We can't seem to grow our own so we have to import talent. As other countries, like China, increase manufacturing, they are going to compete with us for those imports. All the adjusting for SES in the world won't save our economy then.
OK, let’s try to get this back on tract here, the discussion started on the subject of low test scores in comparison to other countries. We are not talking about religion, or politics, or sex. As far as I know none of those things are deteriorating our ability as a nation to compete in the world market.
When I criticize the educational system I do it from the perspective of someone who has been involved to a very high degree. I have been directly involved in both my children’s education to a substantial degree and have seen firsthand the curriculum which has little relevance to developing the skills and education necessary to function in today’s world.
Redundant repetition that bores students to tears. Readers Digest versions of history chalked full of names and dates and none of the real reasoning or causality that would give insight into how the events of the past impact the present. Math thought is such a way that people cannot apply it to everyday problems like figuring out how much of their life’s earnings will go to bankers in interest.
You complain that large portions of your class do not speak English and yet where I live the schools send busses to the border to pick up children from Mexico.
And who is responsible for your 178 day schedule? The parents?
Look I am not defending the parenting skills of the majority of parents, but the idiocy has to stop somewhere or we will continue to spiral downwards into a country of morons. The schools and the teachers are at the front lines of that battle, and at present that is a battle we are losing.
Since we are talking about test scores, the USA tests every student, the bilingual student, the student who doesn't speak English at all, the special needs student, the special needs student who reads at pre-k level but in the 6th grade, students who are ADD, Artistic, as well as having other mental challenges to count. The other countries, that are ahead of us, don't test these types of students nor include these students in their test data.
I brought up sex, politics, and religion only because you said it's the job of the teacher to teach. So if it's my job to teach, I might as well as teach everything. It's almost as if people, who criticize teachers, want teachers to do not only their job of teaching, but provide a service that's beyond our reach, and that's the service of performing miracles. Jesus is the great teacher in that department, and no teacher should be expected to perform miracles in the classroom. All I can do is do what I have been trained to do by my state and provide the best researched practices that would help my students learn.
As far as history lessons, we all know that many History textbooks have been biased and been presented from the point of view of authors and how they see historical events. That's why using authetic/ primary sources, such as actual diaries, letters, stories told or recorded by people who actually lived and were part of that history lesson make better sense to use when teaching as opposed to getting it out of a textbook where the perspective is typically flawed.
As far as your school district busing kids from Mexico, are you saying that bringing kids to the US from Mexico is the reason why our test scores are low? Are you blaming teachers for bringing kids over here from Mexico to teach them in their classroom? It appears to me that you are blaming teachers for the busing. Is what you are saying?
As far as redundancy, in elementary school, I don't know any other way to effectively teach the ABCs, multiplication facts, counting etc. without some form of repetitive teaching in order for children to MASTER those skills. If you have a better researched practice for effectively teaching those skills, please share since you were highly involved in your children's education.
We are now seeing kids born in 2000 entering middle school, and these millenial kids want information instantly as well as using some form of graphic/entertainment in order to maintain their attention.
The reason we are struggling teaching math to the point where 99% of our students can master it is because we are doing, what I call drive by teaching. In other words, each year we flash the math skill to the child, not going in depth, so what happens is that the child is just glancing on the skill and not able to do anything beyond the simple algorithm, with no application or synthesis.
The reason we are losing the battle is because of our plan of attack. We aren't attacking the dropout rate the way we need to help students be successful because by the time our students get to high school, it's too late for them. These students haven't mastered the skills in elementary and middle school in order to be successful in high school.
I don't have the solution to this education problem, but I do know this. How about we just focus on teaching essential skills that our students can master? Then, when our students have mastered those essential skils, all of those other skills that our states want our students to learn and master could be achievable.
IMO what we seem to be doing in education is throwing bits of information at the kids without any depth or duration to mastery (spiraling), then testing them based on recognition vs recall (scantron experts). I've been in several middle schools where the Math books are not used. Reason..the books are written to that grade level yet very few of the kids can read at that level. So they have notebooks and tons of handouts with simple words and pictures that they stuff in their binders.
Study and review and homework ? Why that's a thing of the past.
So sure these kids can pass the state tests because we teach to the test and given the answers, it's easier to figure out which one is right. All based on short term memory and recognition.
By the next year it's all forgotten and needs to be reviewed before moving on to new material. The information is NOT getting into long term memory.
Come college though, many have to take remedial math.
I went back to college to take some math classes as it was 20+ years since I had graduated. Took some of the pre-tests for the various classes to see what I remembered and ended up taking Intermediate Algebra (a college remedial class). To me it was like riding a bike after not having ridden for years..it all came back with a little practice. But there were lots of high school graduates in that class that struggled and just didn't get it.
We need to go back to traditional teaching because how we teach now isn't working.
dNot to get any thing or anyone "riled up" but do individuals in this forum hear NPR? they were doing a report on the Spelling bees around the nation and how so many students competing in the spelling bees are of East Indian descent (first or second generation). The report was typical of the report until a parent was asked re their childs teacher. Then the interesting part came out. I t turns out that the parent was quite satisfied (and happy) with the teachers but had a lot of negative comments about the students his child has to deal with. How "they" value education and hard work but the students were... well fill in a lot of negative comments.
What do you folks think?
Since we are talking about test scores, the USA tests every student, the bilingual student, the student who doesn't speak English at all, the special needs student, the special needs student who reads at pre-k level but in the 6th grade, students who are ADD, Artistic, as well as having other mental challenges to count. .
To start with you could learn the difference between being artistic and autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and graduated in the top 30% of his high school class.
Quote:
The reason we are losing the battle is because of our plan of attack. We aren't attacking the dropout rate the way we need to help students be successful because by the time our students get to high school, it's too late for them. These students haven't mastered the skills in elementary and middle school in order to be successful in high school.
I don't have the solution to this education problem, but I do know this. How about we just focus on teaching essential skills that our students can master? Then, when our students have mastered those essential skils, all of those other skills that our states want our students to learn and master could be achievable.
Since you agree with me that we are losing the education battle, I will rest my case, except to say now that we have identified the problem, we simply need to work on the solution.
To start with you could learn the difference between being artistic and autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and graduated in the top 30% of his high school class.
Since you agree with me that we are losing the education battle, I will rest my case, except to say now that we have identified the problem, we simply need to work on the solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
To start with you could learn the difference between being artistic and autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and graduated in the top 30% of his high school class.
Since you agree with me that we are losing the education battle, I will rest my case, except to say now that we have identified the problem, we simply need to work on the solution.
I believe that part of the solution is to increase the quality of children that come into the public school system. Other countries have figured this out, so they provide early childhood education for every child, and most parents take advantage of it. As a result, when children begin formal academics, virtually every child is already acclimated to school as their job in a way of life that expects them to perform at a standard level.
Personally, I would prefer to take children from "parents" who provide the barest of minimum care, but that would be cost prohibitive. If their parents put a roof over their heads and food in their bellies, then it doesn't matter so much if they don't provide them with the kind of rich learning experiences that eliminate the achievement gap at its source. It's almost as if we would rather suffer as a country than give a child something that their parents didn't earn.
To start with you could learn the difference between being artistic and autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and graduated in the top 30% of his high school class.
Since you agree with me that we are losing the education battle, I will rest my case, except to say now that we have identified the problem, we simply need to work on the solution.
Thanks for the correction. But your son is one of the high functioning (not artistic)autistic students who graduated in the top 30%, and he should be congratulated for his accomplishment.
They shouldn't have ever been passed in the first place, if they are that far behind!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, that is BAD TEACHING (not your part, the part of the teachers before!)! Those teachers that did that should be fired and not allwoed to teach again. Things like that are a crime, IMO!
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I don't know how I missed this post, but are you willing to pay for or hire more teachers to teach those students retained? It boils down to money, and many times school districts won't even allow us to hold back too many kids simply because they don't have any where to place those retained students. It really is about money, and not having the resources to help those kids.
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