Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-16-2012, 08:38 PM
 
92 posts, read 225,834 times
Reputation: 228

Advertisements

I hear so many people talk about “common sense” and how it doesn’t seem so “common” these days. I think that is because a lot of people didn’t learn the basic thinking skills that something formulaic like math forces one to learn.

When I was in school I loved mathematics and science, especially chemistry. While I do use numbers in my accounting profession, I don’t’ really use anything beyond arithmetic and occasionally basic algebra. I did learn and like up to calculus. Now 30 years later I don’t remember how to do it, but math taught me logic and that I do remember and use, every day.


My husband is one who balks at the mere mention of math, the whole “ I can’t do math” , “who needs to know the square root of something” etc. He is not dumb, but has a mental block. If I were to ask him how much is 100 divided by 25, he would draw a blank. But if I asked him how many quarters are in a dollar he would know instantly. He doesn’t get the math connection.



He also prefers to use the diagonal street in our city, rather than going around the blocks and making unnecessary turns. It creates the shortest distance between two points, the hypotenuse we learned in geometry.

When I cut wrapping paper around my package, I measure the paper so it reaches halfway up the side, so that once it’s doubled, it is a perfect fit with no leftover paper to have to cut or fold over and rumble the package. Basic fractions.

Ok, I guess I might be going overboard, but I think many people consider math to be more conceptual, and don’t see that they use it in some form or another every day. Maybe it needs to be taught more in this context.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-16-2012, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,584,768 times
Reputation: 53073
I agree that practical applications of math skills are used daily, from how I measure my coffee beans in the a.m. to rounding purchase amounts when budgeting, and about a million functional activities nobody even notices.

But these aren't the things that are tested in mainstream curriculum, so that affects the way it's taught. By contrast, functional application of mathemetical concepts are EXACTLY what I teach in my life skills curriculum for my special education students. Because these are the skills that are most essential for practical independence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2012, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Orange county, CA
415 posts, read 615,919 times
Reputation: 865
I think it is our culture that is to blame. Academics - a true willingness to learn - is absent in America. I've lived in Japan. America and Japan are as different as night and day.

And honestly, I think the mental block comes from some teacher somewhere who gave up on one of their students. I had a teacher in high school tell me I was not cut for the sciences. I showed up at college, took a physics class for one of my general education courses and had a physics professor state my high school chem teacher was full of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,375,553 times
Reputation: 73937
Quote:
Originally Posted by suissegrl702 View Post
I think it is our culture that is to blame. Academics - a true willingness to learn - is absent in America. I've lived in Japan. America and Japan are as different as night and day.

.
I agree. I never heard kids (or even adults) overseas going on and on like they do here about how they have one subject that is some kind of nemesis.

I also don't hear parents say, "Oh, well, he got a B in X subject, but that's ok...he always gets As in Y subject. That's more his strong suit."

Overseas, my cousins are expected to have all their subjects be their strong suit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,820,680 times
Reputation: 39453
If all students excell in all subjects, then everyone should be getting Cs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 05:26 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,469,447 times
Reputation: 2641
Mathematics requires stable and consistent efforts and the brain wiring to do it well IMO. Not everyone is going to be a math whiz. There's also this: Dyscalculia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which doesn't account for everyone disliking math but it can explain why some otherwise smart people do poorly in it.

I was a History and Bio major in college so, I can't understand why science is a problem for people because I find it fascinating myself. Science, by it's very nature, often requires us to question it and some people would rather just read a chapter, question nothing, and take a test or do a paper. Perhaps people aren't comfortable with it for that reason. Not to say that non-science people are not inquisitive, but maybe their style of learning is not conducive to what science often requires.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 06:41 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
Mathematics requires stable and consistent efforts and the brain wiring to do it well IMO. Not everyone is going to be a math whiz. There's also this: Dyscalculia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which doesn't account for everyone disliking math but it can explain why some otherwise smart people do poorly in it.

I was a History and Bio major in college so, I can't understand why science is a problem for people because I find it fascinating myself. Science, by it's very nature, often requires us to question it and some people would rather just read a chapter, question nothing, and take a test or do a paper. Perhaps people aren't comfortable with it for that reason. Not to say that non-science people are not inquisitive, but maybe their style of learning is not conducive to what science often requires.
People with dyscalculia can do well in math when properly taught. So can people with math anxiety. It is a matter of working on strengths and overcoming weaknesses. Just as dyslexics can learn to read, those with dsycalculia can learn math.

Multisensory programs can be helpful.

Unfortunately, this area is underresearched and programs are just starting to catch up and help.

Interestingly, most people who hate math will be uncomfortable with Physics or Chemistry though perhaps not quite so much with biology (depends on the level).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 10:43 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,235,752 times
Reputation: 5019
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmiley06 View Post
when it comes to math and science the general public is so unbelievably dumb it's quite embarrassing.

How do we as a society help change the way most people think about everyday science and math?
Some people seem to be under the impression that the public schools want to produce educated children. They don't. The neo-progressives who run education want to produce the proletariat of the future to serve the global village of post nationalist utopian multiculturalism, after America has been done away with. That's why it's called "Outcome Based Education".

Progressives want Americans to believe every child should be able to do anything they want to and be protected from all life's little boo-boos with a free college degree. And that's what the progressives keep telling Americans they should have and will have, once we get rid of all the evil racist capitalists and Western Civilization that hold the downtrodden back....

...except that they are lying about that. Because what is really intended is to put everyone down to highest common denominator of poverty possible, while the elites who run the show get to be and do anything they want. Your kids will be obedient potato farmers. Their kids will be Rhodes scholars who tell your kids how to farm potatos properly.

I know because I've been involved in education politics for decades as a "mole" more or less, silently observing without commentary all the BS I see going on.

Most Americans are so naive and CLUELESS about what is going on in America. Every year I meet mediocre students who genuinely believe that they are "brilliant" and "Gifted" and have no idea that they have been cheated and misled in the most evil way imaginable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 10:50 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,235,752 times
Reputation: 5019
Quote:
Originally Posted by suissegrl702 View Post
I think it is our culture that is to blame. Academics - a true willingness to learn - is absent in America. I've lived in Japan. America and Japan are as different as night and day.

And honestly, I think the mental block comes from some teacher somewhere who gave up on one of their students. I had a teacher in high school tell me I was not cut for the sciences. I showed up at college, took a physics class for one of my general education courses and had a physics professor state my high school chem teacher was full of it.
You are right. The American school system has been ruined by progressivism. Most people don't even have a clue to what extent this is true. Thus, they have no clue that a revolution in education is needed, and moreover what sort of changes the revolution ought to bring.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2012, 10:56 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,235,752 times
Reputation: 5019
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEPA-x-pat View Post
Well to add two cents...
I am a career science teacher (32 years!!!) and am currently a science specialist and planetarium director for my district. I have been in the trenches and have seen a lot of methods come and go..

What I see as major problems from the inside:

Standardized testing being the be all and end all. Kids have learned to take tests, not increase their understanding of the nature of science (thank you politicians and NCLB!)

A general refusal to accept good science in favor of political pressures - creationism, global climate change, laws of thermodynamics...(thank you Rush Limbaugh for branding Environmentalist Wackos)
One problem with your premise is this.

50 years ago, American students were overall better in math and science on the world scale than they are today. The schools were also much more amicable toward religion. Today, homeschoolers and privately schooled children do much, much better in science and math than public school kids. I know lots of creationist kids who are going to college on scholarship, majoring in some pretty rigid disciplines, like engineering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:08 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top