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OK well let's start with maths.
I am one of those 'unbelievably dumb' people you speak of who is no good at maths, so I will explain it to you the best I can.
I do believe that people's brains are wired differently.
I have always had difficulty with numbers in one form or another. It is not for a want of trying and it is not laziness. I have difficulty remembering dates for example. I have to carry a diary with me all the time. I can remember the birthdays of close friends and family members but otherwise dates just sort of drop out of my head. I have difficulty retaining them unless I repeat them over and over to myself.
At school I remember really struggling to memorize my times tables to the point I was in tears. I memorized them in the end, but I didn't find it easy at all. I was able to learn basic maths and it became easier once I left school and was able to apply maths in everyday situations. Quadratic equations however, might as well be a foreign language.
My husband on the other hand is a scientist and like you simply cannot understand how people don't 'get it' because he finds it all so easy.
Ask him to draw a picture or do anything practical however, and it is a different story. He cannot paint a straight line to save his life. \
I see it in my own kids. My daughters could happily draw and paint all day long. My son on the other hand who by the age of 10 showed himself to be easily brighter at maths than me, hates anything to do with art. He just has no interest or affinity for it. Three kids all brought up in the same household, sharing the same experiences but academically and practically worlds apart..
I don't think that most people have as profound trouble with numbers that you do (regarding carrying a date book, etc).
As for your children, who knows if they are just modeling after their parents gender-wise. That is a proven phenomenon, btw, and very detrimental to the development of math skills in females.
In anyone, but especially in children, we have a lot of "I don't like" translating to "I can't."
While some students they are excel in science and math but many find learning the complex discipline decidedly difficult. Science is a subject comprised of a plethora of rules and principles. Without a firm grasp of these rules, and an understanding of what they mean, students will struggle to understand scientific information.
And the same condition with math as math is not something that comes intuitively or automatically, with little effort. It is a subject that sometimes requires students to devote lots and lots of time and energy. This means, for many, the problem has little to do with brain power; it is mostly a matter of staying power.
No, it's not staying power or not applying yourself, or not being intelligent enough or that math and science are more complex. It's neurology and probably genetic.
I wish that someone would sprinkle fairy dust on me and make me good at math. My life would have been very different. Mom was good at it. Dad stunk and I take after Dad.
No one worked harder in school in math class so that I could stay in my accelerated program. I liked science but was afraid to pursue higher level work because it would require more complex math. Too bad, because despite not being good at math, I did fairly well in chemistry and liked it. When someone tries explain a new mathetical concept to me, my brain just goes foggy. Only with intense concentration and breaking everything down into the simplest steps, will I process it. Geometry is the only type of math that did not send me into the twilight zone. I could figure out the logic in proving that angles were congruent, but don't ask me to subtract angle A from 180 degrees.
Some people have said that if you are exposed to patterns at an early age and able to process patterns, you can handle mathematical concepts. I can readily see patterns in languages and music, but not in math. I can never figure out what number comes next in a series.
It's not staying power. Athletes and musicians practice in solitary confinement for hours. They are very disciplined.
Interesting, I was looking over the requirements for an elementary school teacher, one sememster of Math Education...and we think that is fine?! No wonder we have so many problems. Elementary should have Math Specialists, who have degrees in teaching math, and kids go to that teacher for math class.
The requirements for getting a teaching certificate in the state of Washington are that you need to take one semester of physics. But the physics dept. offers a course just for teachers, that's watered down. I sure couldn't teach a physics class to save my life!
As far as elementary school math goes, I don't think a math specialist is needed to teach multiplication or long division. What is needed, is teachers who are encouraging, and who can provide some individual assistance during class, and who can pace the material well. Teachers who give struggling students a hard time, or who don't help, can set kids up with a lifelong block against math.
I hear Romania is really good at teaching math in school. Romanian kids win international math competitions more than other kids, I've heard. What is Romania doing in the classroom that we're not?
OK well let's start with maths.
I am one of those 'unbelievably dumb' people you speak of who is no good at maths, so I will explain it to you the best I can.
I do believe that people's brains are wired differently.
I have always had difficulty with numbers in one form or another. It is not for a want of trying and it is not laziness. I have difficulty remembering dates for example. I have to carry a diary with me all the time. I can remember the birthdays of close friends and family members but otherwise dates just sort of drop out of my head. I have difficulty retaining them unless I repeat them over and over to myself.
At school I remember really struggling to memorize my times tables to the point I was in tears. I memorized them in the end, but I didn't find it easy at all. I was able to learn basic maths and it became easier once I left school and was able to apply maths in everyday situations. Quadratic equations however, might as well be a foreign language.
My husband on the other hand is a scientist and like you simply cannot understand how people don't 'get it' because he finds it all so easy.
Ask him to draw a picture or do anything practical however, and it is a different story. He cannot paint a straight line to save his life. Can these skills be taught? Yes to a certain extent. I have taught all sorts of practical subjects; graphic design, interior design, art, woodwork, metalwork etc. I can tell you that some kids have a natural affinity for practical subjects. You can teach people skills and techniques but to some it all just comes naturally, while others struggle.
I see it in my own kids. My daughters could happily draw and paint all day long. My son on the other hand who by the age of 10 showed himself to be easily brighter at maths than me, hates anything to do with art. He just has no interest or affinity for it. Three kids all brought up in the same household, sharing the same experiences but academically and practically worlds apart.
I do agree with you that my lack of any natural ability with maths is frankly embarrassing. I can think of many times when I have been asked the simplest maths question, panic has overwhelmed me and my mind has gone blank. I wish it was not so. I don't believe my lack of ability has anything to do with the way I was taught either. I have a higher than average IQ and I seem to cope perfectly well with other subjects. There were kids in my maths classes who excelled. Why not me?
I think you need to accept that just because you find something easy, that does not mean everybody else will.
Science, on the other hand I love and find fascinating. I'll never be any good at it but that does not stop me appreciating it.
Go on over and check out my thread "dyscalculia - the hidden illiteracy".
The requirements for getting a teaching certificate in the state of Washington are that you need to take one semester of physics. But the physics dept. offers a course just for teachers, that's watered down. I sure couldn't teach a physics class to save my life!
As far as elementary school math goes, I don't think a math specialist is needed to teach multiplication or long division. What is needed, is teachers who are encouraging, and who can provide some individual assistance during class, and who can pace the material well. Teachers who give struggling students a hard time, or who don't help, can set kids up with a lifelong block against math.
I hear Romania is really good at teaching math in school. Romanian kids win international math competitions more than other kids, I've heard. What is Romania doing in the classroom that we're not?
Possibly, nothing.
It may well be that Romanians share a genetic ability to be strong mathematically...or, a genetic absence of dyscalculia.
*see my thread for more info.
It may well be that Romanians share a genetic ability to be strong mathematically...or, a genetic absence of dyscalculia.
*see my thread for more info.
Actually, Romania and Bulgaria do actually do something different in the classroom. Their mathematics classes tend to be deep rather than wide. Take a look at this pdf as an example
Actually, Romania and Bulgaria do actually do something different in the classroom. Their mathematics classes tend to be deep rather than wide. Take a look at this pdf as an example
I have dyscalculia so really won't be able to understand the concepts.
Interesting...and I wonder if a different approach will eventually lead to an improved economy and standard of living for all, one day? Or if they're going to keep on being a poor and backward country who don't need calculators...
I don't think that most people have as profound trouble with numbers that you do (regarding carrying a date book, etc).
True, I would not disagree with you there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
As for your children, who knows if they are just modeling after their parents gender-wise. That is a proven phenomenon, btw, and very detrimental to the development of math skills in females.
Ah but you are assuming here that my girls take after me and have difficulties with maths. They don't.
I'm the only one with this issue.
My girls are both bright sparks in all areas. So far I have seen no evidence of problems with numbers with them, but like me are particularly artistic.
My son however excels in maths but has very little artistic ability.
What I was trying to illustrate is that some abilities are simply innate. Why does my son excel in maths yet struggles with drawing? He is my first born and I have spent lots of time with him and my girls involved in art activities, naturally because of my own interest. But unlike the girls, art is definitely not 'his thing'. Like his father he is unable (and I really mean unable) to render a drawing with any accuracy, a skill my girls can do without thinking.
As a couple, my husband and I are probably relatively unusual, being a scientist and an artist - not people who you often see naturally attract.
Much more commonly you tend to see couples with similar interests. We know lots of scientist/scientist couples. Obviously genetically their kids are similar to them, so having a kid showing no interest in art would not be a surprise, likely not even thought about.
Our kids have picked up different strengths from each of us and is very easy to see where their 'natural' strengths lie.
BTW, just to add I don't have a complete blank where number is concerned. Anything that requires accuracy in a practical situation? Easy. Technical drawing? Not a problem. Scaling up or down? Can do standing on my head. Ask me round and get me to build you a set of shelves. I'm the girl for you. I do all the DIY because I'm finicky / particular to the point of obsession.
For some reason it's dates, names and anything more abstract I'm slow with.
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Dyslexia is now a commonly understood and recognised problem with much research behind it.
Why is it so hard for people to accept that there may be similar issues with number?
I would just hope in reading this, that I have made people stop to think for a minute before passing judgement on people who 'can't do maths', and condemning them as lazy or dumb.
Not everybody can be good at everything (apart from a lucky few).
By the way, I'm not disagreeing that there is probably a lot of bad teaching going on. But I don't believe that it's the only issue going on here.
The requirements for getting a teaching certificate in the state of Washington are that you need to take one semester of physics. But the physics dept. offers a course just for teachers, that's watered down. I sure couldn't teach a physics class to save my life!
As far as elementary school math goes, I don't think a math specialist is needed to teach multiplication or long division. What is needed, is teachers who are encouraging, and who can provide some individual assistance during class, and who can pace the material well. Teachers who give struggling students a hard time, or who don't help, can set kids up with a lifelong block against math.
I hear Romania is really good at teaching math in school. Romanian kids win international math competitions more than other kids, I've heard. What is Romania doing in the classroom that we're not?
There are some places near me that offer teaching math with a Russian approach. They too, perform very well in mathematics and chess. They start alegebraic concepts in first grade. They also do more memorization and drill than the more contemporary methodso of teaching math in American schools.
If you have ever seen a math "text" from the 19th century, you will see that they used a lot more word problems than they do now and they are more complicated than what we teach at the equivalent grade level. The problems are often about chickens, crops, and farming. There was an emphasis to do calculations in your head as students used a slate, rather than pencil and paper.
Science is not that hard for me, math was always my problem. It's the variations and steps that bother me the most. I always end up messing up on a step or do the wrong variation for an equation. Memorizing each step and it's variations is the worst
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