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Unfortunately, most people do not see the economic value of education. If schools compete for education dollars, the winner will be the school that delivers the cheapest product, not the top quality product. The wal-martization of education would be just as rapid as any other industry.
Private schools would likely be hurt the worst. One of the reasons that quality products succeed in private schools now is that they cannot compete on price with public schools. Put price competition back in, and the most successful private schools will become the ones that offer the cheapest product, not the quality product.
You can already see that in post-secondary education, where for-profit diploma mills are becoming the dominant product over traditional brick and mortars. They take advantage of the fact that the money comes indirectly from someone else, namely taxpayers via federal financial aid and loan guarantees.
Take that same scenario, and multiple by two orders of magnitude and take the funds directly out of public money without the families every having to sign onto any financial responsibility for it. That is what you get when you introduce public-private competition for public school funding. The schools the succeed will be the ones that offer the most immediate financial return in the form of refunds and free child care, not the ones who offer the most in terms of education.
The schools the succeed will be the ones that offer the most immediate financial return in the form of refunds and free child care, not the ones who offer the most in terms of education.
Understand what you are saying from a Ghetto perspective.
But most of the US is not a Ghetto.
At least, yet.
In the real world we see an enormous Flight to Quality, regarding schools -- both Public and Private. Do you not understand why City Data exists? It is a Real Estate and Locale information site.
The sub-forums are just add-ons for mind-candy, and to keep that stuff our the Relocation Sections. But Good/Better/Best schools are always a topic all through that.
Folks spend extras hundred(s) of thousands just to get into better school districts. The poor kids are left behind in the crap you seem to support. Why do you wish to continue the Ghetto and crap?
Have you seen the extensive conversations on here espousing the idea that college is not worthwhile unless it provides an immediate return on investment?
While I agree that many people target good school districts for their child's education, just as many if not more target good school districts because they have the most stable home prices.
(And remember, when we talk about the school choice debate, we are specifically talking about schools in poor performing districts, not schools in strong districts.)
Have you seen the extensive conversations on here espousing the idea that college is not worthwhile unless it provides an immediate return on investment?
College is a whole other game than primary, and secondary (high school) education. Decent primary and secondary is considered needed just to be functional. College is generally regarded as an optimization. You follow the difference? For many college cannot give a return on investment as the "demand" degrees cannot be attained because of low quality primary and secondary education inflicted on the kids.
Poorly educated kids simply cannot do the math and science -- generally math through Calculus and Science through Organic Chemistry -- if a kid can do those, they can sail through most College Degree programs. BUT they require a good quality primary and secondary education -- or else a WHOLE lot of remedial work.
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While I agree that many people target good school districts for their child's education, just as many if not more target good school districts because they have the most stable home prices.
You understand that re-affirms that good schools ARE considered valuable?
That type customer is generally very welcome as pay taxes, which help support the good school system.
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(And remember, when we talk about the school choice debate, we are specifically talking about schools in poor performing districts, not schools in strong districts.)
Sure. Let the kids out of the Ghetto schools. Why do you wish to hold these kids down? Study much on Liberation?
The Ghetto, Slave Quarters and Plantation are NOT usually where folks choose to be. At least the folks on the bottom do not choose to be there. For the kids that want out of the Ghetto, school choice can help be a path out.
THe money is for a students education.... it really is that simple. If a private school is educating a student then teh money should go to the private school. If the public chool is educating the student then the public school should get it.
PERHAPS if pulic schools had to COMPETE for teir funding.... if their bottom line DEPENDED on delivering a top quality product then we might see some true reform.
If they were competing for their funding then they wouldn't be "public schools". The whole essence of public education is so that EVERYONE will get an education. EVERYONE can get an adequate education at a public school. The problem is that every parent wants their kid to get an excellent education. Well if you want an excellent education then you can pay extra of you think another school offers something your school doesn't. But that does not change your obligation to financially support the public school system. Just like people that don't have kids have to still pay for it.
College is a whole other game than primary, and secondary (high school) education. Decent primary and secondary is considered needed just to be functional. College is generally regarded as an optimization. You follow the difference? For many college cannot give a return on investment as the "demand" degrees cannot be attained because of low quality primary and secondary education inflicted on the kids.
Poorly educated kids simply cannot do the math and science -- generally math through Calculus and Science through Organic Chemistry -- if a kid can do those, they can sail through most College Degree programs. BUT they require a good quality primary and secondary education -- or else a WHOLE lot of remedial work.
You understand that re-affirms that good schools ARE considered valuable?
That type customer is generally very welcome as pay taxes, which help support the good school system.
Sure. Let the kids out of the Ghetto schools. Why do you wish to hold these kids down? Study much on Liberation?
The Ghetto, Slave Quarters and Plantation are NOT usually where folks choose to be. At least the folks on the bottom do not choose to be there. For the kids that want out of the Ghetto, school choice can help be a path out.
But all the kids can't get out of the ghetto. If you offer them the choice to move to another better performing school, then that is going to make the "ghetto" school even worse. You are just adding to the disparity.
True. At least in our Social Values system at present.
For my part I sort of view things as -- Terminate the Parents when the Kids are in Danger. But Mrs. Philip is a Social Worker who explains current operating theory is that may do more harm.
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If you offer them the choice to move to another better performing school,
The wise ones will take it . . .
Remember we are dealing in Triage and Rescue operations.
Save those we can.
Greatest Good, and all.
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then that is going to make the "ghetto" school even worse.
HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT MATH WORK????
How can rescuing one, a few, or even most harm the ones that may get missed?
How is that?
Project Schools -- once they reach that standard -- get extra funding and Rescue Ranger wantabes involved. Like the Emergency Room at the hospital.
Presently you would have to fire the crooked administrators and slacker teachers that low performing schools attract to create that.
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You are just adding to the disparity.
Better everyone drowns?
Suppose that could be "fair" in some twisted value system?
Sure. Let the kids out of the Ghetto schools. Why do you wish to hold these kids down? Study much on Liberation?
The Ghetto, Slave Quarters and Plantation are NOT usually where folks choose to be. At least the folks on the bottom do not choose to be there. For the kids that want out of the Ghetto, school choice can help be a path out.
Which can be easily achieved by open enrollment instead of voucher programs and private school tax breaks like these.
Do you really think that giving a tax break for private school tuition is going to help people get out of high poverty areas?
How can rescuing one, a few, or even most harm the ones that may get missed?
How is that?
Project Schools -- once they reach that standard -- get extra funding and Rescue Ranger wantabes involved. Like the Emergency Room at the hospital.
Better everyone drowns?
Suppose that could be "fair" in some twisted value system?
That is exactly happened to my wife's district.
At the elementary level, the schools are 60% white and majority middle class.
At the high school level her school was 98% black and over 85% living in poverty. When you add in the population of the two local private high schools, the population goes back to 60% white and majority middle class.
Ironically, the three separate schools perform worse than the high school did 15 years ago when nearly all kids attended the public high school; though the high school has the worst performance of the three now.
So, not only has splitting the students up along socio-economic lines significantly hurt the students left behind at the lowest SES school, but it has also actually hurt the students who left for the higher SES school.
Ironically, the poor performance at the high school has resulted in money being shuttled to other schools in the district. Instead of donors rushing to support a hurting school, they have rushed away to schools with less complex problems.
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