Kindergarten Awards (degree, elementary school, grades, course)

[syracusa]

At the end of K, my son's teacher had an "Awards Day" for which she clearly (and oddly) specified "no parents present!".

At the end of the day, my son came in with a couple of "diplomas" and a ribbon for "completed reading" which seemed very generic. I asked him about them and he said that indeed everyone got one. Knowing the whole PC thing, I didn't probe any further and moved on. (I did praise him for his achievements, of course).

A few days later we flew across the ocean to my home country where we are currently. So fast forward two weeks... today I was telling the kids about my childhood here and my elementary school memories - how competitive it was, how there was a first prize, second prize and third prize at the end of the year, usually for the first 3 kids in class, and how the differences might have been decided by just a few tiny decimals.

To that, my son said that two kids in his class did get two trophies at the end of the year but he didn't know for sure what those were for...but he thinks those must have been something similar to what I had in elementary school.

Rightly or wrongly so, it rubbed me the wrong way.

Not because he didn't get a special/unique trophy at the end (Lord knows what those were for anyway, as one of the kids he mentioned was far from being stellar, academically speaking). What bothered me was that this whole "awards" thing was kept so hush-hush and so purposely parent-free - all this after an entire year during which I tried very graciously and delicately to get an idea about how my son stacked up in his class, in school, as well as generally speaking...without any success.

All I was told was that he does excel in school, that he got maximum grades throughout the year (3+ wherever it was possible), that he's a great kid, that he's well advanced in reading, blah, blah, blah.
Yet they avoided ANY sort of comparison to the general population like the plague.

I understood the teacher's reservations to make comparisons ...yet only up to a point. As a mother, I felt frustrated that I had no point of reference
whatsoever when such points of reference are more important than ever.

I couldn't give a crap that my child "meets and exceeds state standards" if a bunch of other kids already do second degree equations in K and blow any imaginable state standards out of the water already.
I honestly think that this hush-hush approach only serves to make the parent competition even more rabid as parents feel insecure about how much exactly their child should know, when many push their kids waaay above given state standards for the grade.

I continue to believe that parents should have a right to know how their child stacks up in class, in school, as well as compared to the national population (I know this is ensured through standardized tests later); and if there are any non-egalitarian awards (which is more than fine), the parents should have the right to know whether their child didn't get one when others did.

I really wish I could convey this problem I've had to his next teacher so that I can get different results next year (he will be in 1st grade), but I don't know how to do it in a non-offensive yet effective manner.

Any ideas as to what I should ask the teacher in order to have my questions actually answered this time instead of being "smoked" with
"he is doing great"?

I would like to know "great compared to what?". I am also afraid this might be a school policy because a friend of mine with the child in K told me that her son's teacher did give her at least a ballpark, such as "he is among the first 5 in class".

Still better than what I got.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[maf763]

You want public class rankings for kindergarten?

Just to be clear, it is not enough for you to know how your child is doing, you need to know how other kids are doing as well? Why, so you can insult these other kids as being 'far from stellar, academically speaking'?

Please try to put yourself in the shoes of an educator at your child's school and reread your post.

[Pitt Chick]

It's kindergarten for pete's sake!

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by maf763

You want public class rankings for kindergarten?

Just to be clear, it is not enough for you to know how your child is doing, you need to know how other kids are doing as well? Why, so you can insult these other kids as being 'far from stellar, academically speaking'?

Please try to put yourself in the shoes of an educator at your child's school and reread your post.

Exactly. What difference does it make how the other kids in his class are doing? Soon enough he'll be taking standardized tests and you can compare those to other, anonymous, children his age/grade. Why must you know where he stands in relation to specific children in Kindergarten? What would that knowledge gain him or you?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by maf763

You want public class rankings for kindergarten?

Just to be clear, it is not enough for you to know how your child is doing, you need to know how other kids are doing as well? Why, so you can insult these other kids as being 'far from stellar, academically speaking'?

Please try to put yourself in the shoes of an educator at your child's school and reread your post.

I expected such reactions - however I sincerely believe that parents should have the right to know how their child does in comparative terms.
This does not mean that he/she needs to know how THE OTHER children are doing. He simply needs an anonymous ranking for their own child.

If I am told "your child is about the 4th in class"...or perhaps towards the bottom, the 12th...how am I knowing how the other children are doing?
I only know that 2 or 3 kids are better than mine, the others tend to perform below. This is important information for a parent and I believe they should have the right to know it.

I do not need to know who is who, I do not need any sort of names, neither would I be interested to know such info.

I only need some touch with reality - which is the ONLY THING that actually matters, and NOT some narrow state standards.

It may sound all perfectly kosher to say that the school has done its duty by telling the parent whether or not the child "meets the standards" - but this is not at all kosher to me. The ONLY standards that actually matter are the MARKET standards.

How is it helpful for me to know that my child "meets state standards for K" when 10 of his colleagues might perform at 3rd grade level but I would never know...and I would just walk away safe in my knowledge that my child is doing "great"?

Maintaining this is OK is sheer hypocrisy.

As for the "insulting" part: surprisingly, I didn't get such knowledge from being offered what you consider highly offensive info.
I found it from having to "volunteer" at "reading tables" at school, which is something I do reluctantly, but I do it because I know I have to do it.

I worked with the child in question many times and she simply struck me as much less academically inclined than others I have worked with in my son's class. This is not the case for the other child my son mentioned who seemed indeed one of the best students in class.
That's all.

Also, since when is "not being academically stellar" an insult?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Pitt Chick

It's kindergarten for pete's sake!

Will they give more info in 1st grade? If not, when would my issue become a legitimate one?
2nd? 4th? High-school? When my son's job application will be one of the 999 rejected, out of 1000?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Exactly. What difference does it make how the other kids in his class are doing? Soon enough he'll be taking standardized tests and you can compare those to other, anonymous, children his age/grade. Why must you know where he stands in relation to specific children in Kindergarten? What would that knowledge gain him or you?

Why can't I know whether my son was one of those who received an award (if any) or not?

I am his mother, also for pete's sake.

Again, being told approximately where your child stacks up in class does not mean you know how specific children are doing. How could you possibly know that?

Where did I say I wanted PUBLIC class rankings? I refuse to believe a confidential talk between the parent and the teacher could not include info along the lines of "your kid is about the 5th in class". Or even "among the first 5". Or "towards the bottom". No names needed.
Who would be harmed?...

As for giving out awards, if you present them in class to the kids - you've already made this public as is. Why couldn't parents be there?

[maciesmom]

All I was told was that he does excel in school, that he got maximum grades throughout the year (3+ wherever it was possible), that he's a great kid, that he's well advanced in reading, blah, blah, blah.

Seems to me the teacher told you exactly what you need to know. He excels, he got maximum grades and he is well advanced in reading. That is clearly more than "he met or exceeded" all milestones expected at this age. Why do you need to know that he was the best in his specific class. Why then stop at his class? Why not ask if he was the best in his grade or the district. You will be finding all that out once he begins standardized testing. And then, once he is in high school, his class ranking will be available.

ETA - I'm sure if your son would have received an award, he would have brought it home. You have a right to know how your son is doing. The teacher informed you.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

ETA - I'm sure if your son would have received an award, he would have brought it home. You have a right to know how your son is doing. The teacher informed you.

He brought two so-called "awards" which everyone else got. If there were awards that were given only for specific merits (which were not given to everyone) I would have liked to know that some were given out in the first place and what they were for.

It is obvious that if such awards were made available (say "best in cooking"), it would be helpful for the parent to know that their child is not that great of a cook after all; 'cause if he was, he would have gotten an award, right?

Why does this have to be so "offensive" when it is not?

In the end, I understand this is a matter of philosophy and that people here disagree that such information should be important to a parent.
But IT IS important to me (and to many other parents, that I know for a fact) ...and I was simply curious whether there is any diplomatic or specific way in which I could talk to the teacher and receive the information I consider important.

If there isn't, I guess I will have to wait until standardized tests are done.

[maciesmom]

Who said anything about offensive?

Most likely they were not for "first place" or whatever. Your son didn't even know. Perhaps they were about kids who made strides in their behavior. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Kindergarten isn't the time for ranking. Just leave it be and move on. You have 12 more years to pile on the pressure to be the best.