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Old 06-28-2012, 11:41 AM
 
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U.S. Schools Are Still Ahead--Way Ahead

U.S. Schools Are Still Ahead—Way Ahead - BusinessWeek

"...
Education is the future of our nation. But let's get over our inferiority complex. America is second to none. Rather than in mastery of facts learned by rote and great numbers of accomplished martinets, its strength lies in the diversity and innovation that arise in an open, creative society."



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Old 06-28-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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Uh no, no, not at all. If U.S schools were so far ahead, way ahead according to the author, then can he explain why so many college students need to take remedial courses in college? The schools are churning out so many poorly prepared students that they need to retake courses which they first took years ago.

And the problem is become serious enough that states are now cutting remedial courses all together. Ohio universities, starting within a couple of years, will no longer offer remedial courses which are used by 42% of all freshmen. Ohio is joining 21 other states in eliminating remedial courses from their class loads. If US schools were so very good, then the author is going to have to explain why so many public unis have to spend so much money and time to get their own students prepared to do work which they were supposedly taught years ago....
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:04 PM
 
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The independence and social skills American children develop give them a huge advantage when they join the workforce. They learn to experiment, challenge norms, and take risks. They can think for themselves, and they can innovate.
Seriously? Many of the students I taught were not risk takers. They were afraid to be wrong. They wanted grades not knowledge. Yes, they have social skills, but in general, that did not lead to innovative thinking or taking risks, but to following their peers wherever that led.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Seriously? Many of the students I taught were not risk takers. They were afraid to be wrong. They wanted grades not knowledge. Yes, they have social skills, but in general, that did not lead to innovative thinking or taking risks, but to following their peers wherever that led.
Oh man, is that ever the truth. As an older student when I went back for my second BS, I couldn't believe just how much the department curved the classes, because they knew that few students understood anything being taught, and just memorized well enough to get by and in some cases do very well, but had no real understanding of the material. It was all about the grades, getting homework done, not real knowledge. I had a few classes where I could persuade some of my classmates to sit down, talk about what the material meant and why it was done, and we did exceptionally well in those classes, despite the terrible quality of both the text and professor. But that only happened a few times, mostly it was all about getting homework done, and forget about true knowledge and understanding....
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:47 PM
 
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I think certain schools do better than others and same with school districts. If we are talking about k-12 education then we still, imo, have a ways to go to create a more equal system.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:10 PM
 
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If I remember correctly (I can't find the stats anymore), Asian American students outperform all the Asian student in Asian countries. White American students also outperform all European countries with the exception of Finland. So American K-12 education for these demographic groups are indeed second to none in things like the rote mastery of facts, analysis, and creativity. The big problem lies mostly with Black and Hispanic students and they tend to perform near the level of Third World students. This isn't to say the American education system is perfect (it isn't) but that the main problem is access and Blacks and Hispanics are getting inferior education and not the same level of access as Whites. Unfortunately, I don't see this situation improving and in fact I see it worsening especially since Hispanics will comprise a much larger portion of the population. If America continues to ignore Hispanics and I suspect they will, the problem will get much worse in the future.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: The Midwest
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Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
If I remember correctly (I can't find the stats anymore), Asian American students outperform all the Asian student in Asian countries. White American students also outperform all European countries with the exception of Finland. So American K-12 education for these demographic groups are indeed second to none in things like the rote mastery of facts, analysis, and creativity. The big problem lies mostly with Black and Hispanic students and they tend to perform near the level of Third World students. This isn't to say the American education system is perfect (it isn't) but that the main problem is access and Blacks and Hispanics are getting inferior education and not the same level of access as Whites. Unfortunately, I don't see this situation improving and in fact I see it worsening especially since Hispanics will comprise a much larger portion of the population. If America continues to ignore Hispanics and I suspect they will, the problem will get much worse in the future.
To an extent, this is true. We had a foreign exchange student from Denmark who said they only test their college bound students. If America only tested our college bound students (or a different control, such as only upper-middle class students, only white students, only students from two parent households, etc.) our scores would be much higher.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
Uh no, no, not at all. If U.S schools were so far ahead, way ahead according to the author, then can he explain why so many college students need to take remedial courses in college? The schools are churning out so many poorly prepared students that they need to retake courses which they first took years ago.
Simple. There are a higher percentage of students going to college and many of them have no business being there in the first place. Years ago, those kids wouldn't have even been in college at all.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Henry Bowman View Post
Simple. There are a higher percentage of students going to college and many of them have no business being there in the first place. Years ago, those kids wouldn't have even been in college at all.
True, but their going to college underscores the poor job which k-12 is doing, which is completely the opposite of what the article claimed. US k-12 ISN'T way ahead of other nations, the remedial classes at unis underscores the fact, those unqualified college students who are allowed in are the proof....
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
True, but their going to college underscores the poor job which k-12 is doing, which is completely the opposite of what the article claimed. US k-12 ISN'T way ahead of other nations, the remedial classes at unis underscores the fact, those unqualified college students who are allowed in are the proof....
In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.

Compare the same percentiles to each other, otherwise the comparison is not valid. American public schools are preparing the students just as well if not better than elsewhere, the difference is that ALL students are being funneled into college when many of them should be doing other things. That is not the fault of the school system.

Look what happens when more than just the top students are sent into these programs:

"My research team at Duke looked in depth at the engineering education of China and India. We documented that these countries now graduate four to seven times as many engineers as does the U.S.The quality of these engineers, however, is so poor that most are not fit to work as engineers; their system of rote learning handicaps those who do get jobs, so it takes two to three years for them to achieve the same productivity as fresh American graduates."
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