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We are supposed to be teaching and educating, not babysitting. This is part of the problem with public schools, people want the schools to be babysitting services not schools.
So, you're suggesting a lot of biases. One, that babysitting is bad and cannot be useful. Two, that extending the school day would be your definition of babysitting.
I think extending the school day would allow for a better educational experience, with more time for "extras" such as sports/PE, arts, study hall, etc.
So, you're suggesting a lot of biases. One, that babysitting is bad and cannot be useful. Two, that extending the school day would be your definition of babysitting.
I think extending the school day would allow for a better educational experience, with more time for "extras" such as sports/PE, arts, study hall, etc.
Actually, no. It's not the school day that needs to be extended. It's the school year. Do you really think children need more than a 7 hour school day? Do you think they can work that long? 7 hours is more than enough for children. I'd buy making it longer for high school since there's such a push against homework but not elementary school or even middle school. 7 hours is enough school for one day for kids.
And it was you who suggested that school should be baby sitting. You're the one who wants school to cover time parents are working. Children are not mini adults. You can't expect them to work an adult day.
Actually, no. It's not the school day that needs to be extended. It's the school year. Do you really think children need more than a 7 hour school day? Do you think they can work that long? 7 hours is more than enough for children. I'd buy making it longer for high school since there's such a push against homework but not elementary school or even middle school. 7 hours is enough school for one day for kids.
And it was you who suggested that school should be baby sitting. You're the one who wants school to cover time parents are working. Children are not mini adults. You can't expect them to work an adult day.
I never called it babysitting. I suggested that extending the school day would be useful for parents and students. If you want to call it babysitting, that's you, not me. Any biases contained in one's idea of "babysitting" are their own, but do not necessarily represent reality.
You're right, children are not mini adults. But, how to you argue that their day is short if they're "keeping busy" at day care, or go to sports, or music practices?
I never called it babysitting. I suggested that extending the school day would be useful for parents and students. If you want to call it babysitting, that's you, not me. Any biases contained in one's idea of "babysitting" are their own, but do not necessarily represent reality.
You're right, children are not mini adults. But, how to you argue that their day is short if they're "keeping busy" at day care, or go to sports, or music practices?
Baby sitting would be useful for parents. A longer school day would not be useful for children. There comes a point where the material has been taught and students need time to digest it. You can't just keep going because it's convenient for parents for kids to be in school 9 hours a day.
I don't care what they do in day care. Day care is not school. It's more like recess. I would argue that after 7 hours in school the best place for kids would be day care or home where they can play. Sports and music lessons and such are MORE reason to keep the school day short. Why do you want to make it longer on top of sports and music and homework???? How many hours a day is enough for an elementary school child?
Now if you want to make high school longer, I can see that. I'd love to have more practice time in my classes. A 50 minute period is just not long enough. I'm betting my students would argue that a 7 period day is too long though.
Baby sitting would be useful for parents. A longer school day would not be useful for children. There comes a point where the material has been taught and students need time to digest it. You can't just keep going because it's convenient for parents for kids to be in school 9 hours a day.
I don't care what they do in day care. Day care is not school. It's more like recess. I would argue that after 7 hours in school the best place for kids would be day care or home where they can play. Sports and music lessons and such are MORE reason to keep the school day short. Why do you want to make it longer on top of sports and music and homework???? How many hours a day is enough for an elementary school child?
Now if you want to make high school longer, I can see that. I'd love to have more practice time in my classes. A 50 minute period is just not long enough. I'm betting my students would argue that a 7 period day is too long though.
I haven't advocated making the school day longer "on top of sports and music and homework," as you said. What I did ask was
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist
How to you argue that their day is short if they're "keeping busy" at day care, or go to sports, or music practices?
Which is to suggest that their day is long already. I responded this way because when you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Do you really think children need more than a 7 hour school day? Do you think they can work that long? 7 hours is more than enough for children. I'd buy making it longer for high school since there's such a push against homework but not elementary school or even middle school. 7 hours is enough school for one day for kids.
it reads a lot like you are suggesting children only have 7 hour days, as if you were not counting extracurriculars as "work".
Now, would you advocate the child being placed in actual day care which, for the most part, is very much not educational? Let's note that you seem to confuse my use of educational with sitting in a lecture hall, as if we're speaking of college students. By educational, I mean that it is valuable to the child because the activity promotes development. Yes, I do understand that some day care can be educational as I've defined it, and that day care allows children to socialize and play. For the most part, day care means dropping a child off at a center, where he or she will keep busy.
Or, would you advocate the child watching television (or playing videogames) at home, alone? That is a reality for many children.
Your perspective does not seem to take in to account the reality parents and children are faced with, or what children actually do at school. Your responses suggest that you think children are sitting in a sterile, boring classroom for 7 hours a day, then go home and hang out with mom and dad for dinner and homework. I'm not saying that is your viewpoint, but that your posts suggest that to be your viewpoint.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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When should the school year start and end?
Start after Corn Harvest, (Oct)
End before Hay crop (June) School day should be MUCH shorter, preferrably at night (dark) so our kids can work in the fields and with the livestock during daylight. Schools in our area have lights, they should USE them (when the sun doesn't shine).
City kids whose parents like to use school for daycare could use the schools during the day. BTW: What do city kids do at night in their free time?? Wouldn't it be better to have them home during the DAY when they could enjoy some sun? Seems it would be more 'quality' time to be together during the day, and to go to work / school at night when you are tired and grumpy .
BUT... Having lived in ASIA, I'm into COMPRESSING the school day (teachers have a class of 50 kids from 7A - noon, and another batch of 50 from 1P - 5P) 1/2 the teachers and 1/2 the buildings (and expensive inept administrators needed).
Using schools at night for farm kids and shift worker kids would cut overhead even further.
When we worked in the schools as a homeschool service project, our kids always commented; "If the students would pay attention and get their work done, they could be outta here by noon and playing outdoors all afternoon".
I would also vote for indentured 'servants' at age 12+ (I did that and 'survived'). And the vocational EDU allowed me to have a very high paid technical career, as well as my College degreed engineering career. (I switched back and forth at will) and sometimes with the weather / harvest schedule. Start after Corn Harvest, (Oct)End before Hay crop (June)
I haven't advocated making the school day longer "on top of sports and music and homework," as you said. What I did ask was
Which is to suggest that their day is long already. I responded this way because when you said
it reads a lot like you are suggesting children only have 7 hour days, as if you were not counting extracurriculars as "work".
Now, would you advocate the child being placed in actual day care which, for the most part, is very much not educational? Let's note that you seem to confuse my use of educational with sitting in a lecture hall, as if we're speaking of college students. By educational, I mean that it is valuable to the child because the activity promotes development. Yes, I do understand that some day care can be educational as I've defined it, and that day care allows children to socialize and play. For the most part, day care means dropping a child off at a center, where he or she will keep busy.
Or, would you advocate the child watching television (or playing videogames) at home, alone? That is a reality for many children.
Your perspective does not seem to take in to account the reality parents and children are faced with, or what children actually do at school. Your responses suggest that you think children are sitting in a sterile, boring classroom for 7 hours a day, then go home and hang out with mom and dad for dinner and homework. I'm not saying that is your viewpoint, but that your posts suggest that to be your viewpoint.
Where, in the world, do you get this from my posts??? We're talking about length of school day NOT what kids do during that day. What they are doing isn't even brought up. We're not talking about what is done at school. I assume teaching/learning is done at school. What kids do at home is up to their parents but many are in extra curriculars that are time consuming (never said they weren't).
The argument here is how long should the school day be so I am not counting extra curriculars as they are not part of the school day. They are on top of the school day and more reason to not have a longer school day. 7 hours of being taught is quite enough for younger children. I think you could argue that a longer day would work for high school, since it now appears it is the teacher's job to make sure kids do their homework.
For younger kids, 7 hours of learning is plenty. They need time to play, time to do homework and time to practice whatever extras mom and dad have them in. Overwhelming them with more learning packed into the day isn't going to help them.
Use of day care is up to parents but day care is not school. It's more like after school play time. My kids loved their latch key program so much we used it even though we didn't really need it. They had the option of coming home right after school 95% of the time but preferred to go play with their friends, which was fine by me because I didn't have to rush home. I'd let them play an hour and then go get them.
Ooh, I would have loved that. Three days off is perfect. I've worked a four ten hour day schedule before and absolutely loved it.
I wonder how this worked out WRT learning. It would be a cost save WRT busses which only have to run 4 days a week and for heating/cooling which only have to be done to comfort levels 4 days a week but did the kids learn as much as they did in 5 days?
The charter school I taught at had an interesting schedule. Some classes were blocked and some were not. Hours 1-5 were blocked. We saw them for two 90 minute blocks each Monday-Thursday and then on Friday for a 50 minute period. We saw hours 6 and 7 for 50 minutes per day every day. It was difficult for my block classes to pace with my non block classes because there would often come a point, in the middle of class, where the logical thing to do was let the students practice (what would normally be homework) before going on. I had to figure out how to teach two classes of material during one block without the benefit of students having done the homework in between.
I would, however, love longer periods for lab classes. 50 minutes is so short that I have to, practically, do the lab for them to get everyone done on time. What I miss about blocks is I could let my students make mistakes and learn from them. With 50 minute period, I have to stop them before they go too far so they have time to finish. I miss having 20 minutes to let them hang themselves and I think they miss something not getting to make those mistakes. IMO, they learn far less when I tell them how to do the lab than when they figure it out on their own. To do that now, I have to lose two classes and about 70% of my students will finish the first day anyway.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-15-2012 at 07:36 AM..
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