Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's ridiculous. Not everyone wants a career that involves math. My brother scored 800 on the math SAT and then chose to be a woodworker. How much algebra do you think is required to measure a piece of wood, put it on a lathe, and then sand it? If you were working in marketing, no one would try to recruit you based on your proficiency in advanced math. They'd recruit you based on the success and creativity of campaigns you designed. Your math skills other than the ability to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and work with fractions and percents would be irrelevant.
That's sort of like asking why the engineers should take literature. It's to make you a whole person, so you can participate in a business conversation.
That's ridiculous. Not everyone wants a career that involves math. My brother scored 800 on the math SAT and then chose to be a woodworker. How much algebra do you think is required to measure a piece of wood, put it on a lathe, and then sand it? If you were working in marketing, no one would try to recruit you based on your proficiency in advanced math. They'd recruit you based on the success and creativity of campaigns you designed. Your math skills other than the ability to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and work with fractions and percents would be irrelevant.
That is fine, but the dramatic opportunities for jobs/growth/etc. are heavy in math.
And people absolutely recruit marketers based on mathematical proficiency! The best marketers have to know how to perform sophisticated regression analyses on customer preferences, have to know how to apply game theory to competitors actions and have to know how to perform statistical data mining on market trends. Good marketing people are incredibly analytical.
That's sort of like asking why the engineers should take literature. It's to make you a whole person.
Engineers are college tracked. I'm talking about people who aren't.
When I was in high school there were three tracks.
1. College track. Typical math, science, language arts, social studies, electives which might or might not have had anything to do with the anticipated college major.
2. Business track. Business and consumer maths, bookkeeping, business writing, typing, steno, office management, etc.
3. Vo-Tech track. After 8th grade, students spent 3-4 hours at vo-tech learning a trade and about two hours in school where they took four years of language arts and one year of business or consumer math. Any other math or any science they might need for their career path was integrated into the vo-tech program, but not as book learned or full course material--they learned only was what specifically relevant to their vo-tech path.
In other words a cosmetology student would learn some basic chemistry as it specifically pertains to hair dressing, but wouldn't take a full chemistry class. They wouldn't learn about magnesium or chromium, they'd learn about ammonia and how it reacts with bleach so they didn't give someone a chemical burn while trying to dye and perm at the same time.
All were required to take a certain number of units of health and gym by state law. (Same with language arts)
This allowed every student to leave high school with the skills they needed towards the next step in their lives. This started to change about the same time that higher education started to become a big business with paid lobbyists. That's when giving kids the tools they needed after graduation went from being what's best for the kids to what's best for the endowments.
That is fine, but the dramatic opportunities for jobs/growth/etc. are heavy in math.
What don't you understand about not everyone wants to go into a career that requires math beyond the basics? Not everyone wants to be a boss. Not everyone wants to be a scientist, a CEO, or an accountant.
Quote:
And people absolutely recruit marketers based on mathematical proficiency! The best marketers have to know how to perform sophisticated regression analyses on customer preferences, have to know how to apply game theory to competitors actions and have to know how to perform statistical data mining on market trends. Good marketing people are incredibly analytical.
Not all marketing is as high tech as you think it is. I've got 25 years of highly successful experience in the field to prove that. There are many marketing careers that are more creative than analytical.
What don't you understand about not everyone wants to go into a career that requires math beyond the basics? Not everyone wants to be a boss. Not everyone wants to be a scientist, a CEO, or an accountant.
I am not talking about what people want to go into, I am talking about where the biggest needs are, and where open jobs are. Besides, would someone rather work as a server in a restaurant than work as a financial analyst?
Quote:
Not all marketing is as high tech as you think it is. I've got 25 years of highly successful experience in the field to prove that. There are many marketing careers that are more creative than analytical.
And having that creative mind while simultaneously being able to statistically calculate how much market share you would gain within 90% statistical confidence by increasing your customer's rating of your image by 5%, 10%, 15% is a skill that can provide dramatically better results than creativity alone.
I am not talking about what people want to go into, I am talking about where the biggest needs are, and where open jobs are. Besides, would someone rather work as a server in a restaurant than work as a financial analyst?
I would! I'm a people person, there's no freaking way I'd work as a financial analyst! I'd rather wait tables or run a register. I quite a six figure job because I was miserable about 10 years ago. It's not all about the money.
Quote:
And having that creative mind while simultaneously being able to statistically calculate how much market share you would gain within 90% statistical confidence by increasing your customer's rating of your image by 5%, 10%, 15% is a skill that can provide dramatically better results than creativity alone.
I can compute that and don't need advanced math skills to figure it out. It is primarily the percentages, fractions, and ratios we learned in 5th grade, but with more complicated word questions to extract the information out of. It's not the math that's harder, it's the reading comprehension and common sense.
And again, not all marketing jobs require math, many are more creative than analytical. Do you work in the marketing industry?
I know the industry and I know the skill set required to become certified, and I know there are a measurable number of certified welders who have neither a GED or diploma. There is a shortage of certified welders, and I have heard more than a few of my associates complain that they had to turn away a perfectly qualified applicant because he lacked a diploma or GED, which is a requirement at their place of business.
Do you hire welders? For that matter, do you employ any skilled labor?
To answer your questions:
Quote:"Do you hire welders?"
Nope. No need for them. This was high-tech medical and telecom.... only the best talent from the best schools.
(Though when I was about 23, I had a passion for building race cars... so I got my welder's license, just for fun, to build my own cars. I was just annoyed that they wouldn't just let me take the test, and be done with it.) Sort of the same problem with plumbers and electricians; the whole 'journeyman' thing is ridiculous. If you know what you are doing, just let them take the test.
Quote:"For that matter, do you employ any skilled labor?"
Definition of skilled labor:"
]A segment of the work force with a high skill level that creates significant economic value through the work performed (human capital). Skilled labor is generally characterized by high education or expertise levels and high wages. Skilled labor involves complicated tasks that require specific skill sets, education, training and experience, and may involve abstract thinking. Skilled labor is the specialized part of the labor force with advanced education. Examples of skilled labor include physicians, plumbers, attorneys, engineers, scientists, builders, architects and professors."
So, based on that definition, that is ALL we hired. (well, no plumbers).
I would! I'm a people person, there's no freaking way I'd work as a financial analyst! I'd rather wait tables or run a register. I quite a six figure job because I was miserable about 10 years ago. It's not all about the money.
I can compute that and don't need advanced math skills to figure it out. It is primarily the percentages, fractions, and ratios we learned in 5th grade, but with more complicated word questions to extract the information out of. It's not the math that's harder, it's the reading comprehension and common sense.
And again, not all marketing jobs require math, many are more creative than analytical. Do you work in the marketing industry?
For a while I did business intelligence work writing the equations for the marketing people. I was the technical end of the work that the marketing people used, and one thing I found is that people's 'gut feeling' is often wrong. Developing sophisticated statistical models of market trends, and then using those as the starting point for the creative thinking produces dramatically better results. I am sorry, but I simply disagree that many marketing jobs are more creative than analytical. I think that is definitely something people claim simply because intuitively it seems to make sense, however looking at results of various projects, those that started with a firm statistical and probability based platform produce significantly better results. That isn't to say that the creative portions are not important, because they absolutely are, but they should build off of the quantitative foundation, not stand on their own.
I never said it had "value." It was simply a point of interest.
And I'm glad you can design a space ship. Not all of can, and not all of us want to.
By the way, I don't drink Starbucks, their coffee sucks but their slick marketing has herded the sheeple into thinking that they can't live without it.
Quote:"I never said it had "value." It was simply a point of interest."
Not convinced it is of any interest to those in this forum.
Quote:"By the way, I don't drink Starbucks, their coffee sucks but their slick marketing has herded the sheeple into thinking that they can't live without it."
Diversionary tactics tend only to apply to those with weak arguments.
That's ridiculous. Not everyone wants a career that involves math. My brother scored 800 on the math SAT and then chose to be a woodworker. How much algebra do you think is required to measure a piece of wood, put it on a lathe, and then sand it? If you were working in marketing, no one would try to recruit you based on your proficiency in advanced math. They'd recruit you based on the success and creativity of campaigns you designed. Your math skills other than the ability to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and work with fractions and percents would be irrelevant.
Quote:" How much algebra do you think is required to measure a piece of wood, put it on a lathe, and then sand it?"
Choosing to be a woodworker can take a LOT of algebra and geometry. Try building one of these: (and this is not even the complex version). Hope you are really good at compound complex angles (and an accuracy of 1/32"). Did 4 of them when I was 17.
Quote:"If you were working in marketing, no one would try to recruit you based on your proficiency in advanced math."
That is a gross generalization. In the technical fields, where the marketing liaison interface with both the customer and engineering staff is fundamental, the engineers would eat you for lunch if you weren't technically savvy (and that includes mathematics). Numerous of the engineers ended up going into marketing, as they were technically skilled in the areas of the products, and could also be good at providing 'vaporware' to the customers.
Now if you are in marketing for Mary Kay cosmetics, it may not matter so much.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
