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Old 10-20-2012, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
My own kids saw the connection between practice at home and improved performance at school well before they were in middle school. Just because a kid doesn't see the connection NOW doesn't mean that they are incapable of seeing the connection.

Like I said, do a reward system for the homework doers. Do a weekly raffle for the kids who turn in completed homework per your specs - then draw a name for a prize. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just something that the kids would like to have. Even the recognition (or seeing others recognized) for doing their daily practice might be motivation enough - .
I wish it were as simple as raffling off pencils or stickers or something. It is going to vary drastically based on the kids in the room. I tried raffles last year for kids who got to class on time (tardies were a HUGE issue for one class), and it didn't matter--the draw of talking to friends in the hallway was more exciting than a free candy or fancy eraser. Same for homework. Soccer practice, video games, and being lazy are far more intriguing than math homework, even if math homework means a chance for a prize.

It's really all about building that internal motivation, which can only be achieved by building strong relationships with the individual kids and finding out what makes each of them tick. I usually am able to get there with about half my slacker kiddos, but the other half just aren't ready to improve themselves yet.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:50 PM
 
17,353 posts, read 16,498,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
I wish it were as simple as raffling off pencils or stickers or something. It is going to vary drastically based on the kids in the room. I tried raffles last year for kids who got to class on time (tardies were a HUGE issue for one class), and it didn't matter--the draw of talking to friends in the hallway was more exciting than a free candy or fancy eraser. Same for homework. Soccer practice, video games, and being lazy are far more intriguing than math homework, even if math homework means a chance for a prize.

It's really all about building that internal motivation, which can only be achieved by building strong relationships with the individual kids and finding out what makes each of them tick. I usually am able to get there with about half my slacker kiddos, but the other half just aren't ready to improve themselves yet.
If I'm understanding correctly, these kids at the bottom aren't inspired by rewards, are too lazy to do their homework, can't comprehend the connection between practice and improved performance, are tardy to class because they are talking in the hall ... But they ARE inspired by percentage points/grades/GPA. I just find that kind of incredible.

BTW: I think it's wonderful that you are taking the time to understand the individual kids and what it takes to motivate each one of them. You won't get through to all of them, but the ones you do reach will remember you forever.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,966,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
I wish it were as simple as raffling off pencils or stickers or something. It is going to vary drastically based on the kids in the room. I tried raffles last year for kids who got to class on time (tardies were a HUGE issue for one class), and it didn't matter--the draw of talking to friends in the hallway was more exciting than a free candy or fancy eraser. Same for homework. Soccer practice, video games, and being lazy are far more intriguing than math homework, even if math homework means a chance for a prize.

It's really all about building that internal motivation, which can only be achieved by building strong relationships with the individual kids and finding out what makes each of them tick. I usually am able to get there with about half my slacker kiddos, but the other half just aren't ready to improve themselves yet.
Sounds like we have one group of parents who care about their children and another who do not. You would think the internal motivation and drive would be instilled by family values, by watching your parents and thinking that's the way the world operates. How can the Norwegians and Japanese be so good at this, and we, so awful? Maybe we need to address the problem, as a society, where it begins, with the parents. Big public service thing about the behavior of bad parents - so big that it's talked about in churches, etc. 'A mind is a terrible thing to waste' and it starts wasting in the home.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,525,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
My own kids saw the connection between practice at home and improved performance at school well before they were in middle school. Just because a kid doesn't see the connection NOW doesn't mean that they are incapable of seeing the connection.

Like I said, do a reward system for the homework doers. Do a weekly raffle for the kids who turn in completed homework per your specs - then draw a name for a prize. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just something that the kids would like to have. Even the recognition (or seeing others recognized) for doing their daily practice might be motivation enough - .
But, kids who don't see the connection will not do optional homework and because they don't do it, they're unlikely to ever see the connection.

What's the difference between prizes and grades? Even in the lowest performing group, you will have parents who care about grades who will, at least, threaten to ground kids who don't do homework. Prizes get old unless you keep upping the ante. They have to get bigger and bigger to have the same effect. Case in point, I started the year giving color change pencils to kids who would go up and do problems on the board. I bought 144, I have 100 left and can no longer get kids to do problems on the board. They're asking what else I've got.... The last request was a pizza party. I'm sticking with recording a zero and calling mom when they don't do their homework. Maybe mom will get tired of me calling and do something....
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:31 PM
 
17,353 posts, read 16,498,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
But, kids who don't see the connection will not do optional homework and because they don't do it, they're unlikely to ever see the connection.

What's the difference between prizes and grades? Even in the lowest performing group, you will have parents who care about grades who will, at least, threaten to ground kids who don't do homework. Prizes get old unless you keep upping the ante. They have to get bigger and bigger to have the same effect. Case in point, I started the year giving color change pencils to kids who would go up and do problems on the board. I bought 144, I have 100 left and can no longer get kids to do problems on the board. They're asking what else I've got.... The last request was a pizza party. I'm sticking with recording a zero and calling mom when they don't do their homework. Maybe mom will get tired of me calling and do something....
When I was a kid I *hated* going to the board and doing work like that, it mortified me to do it and I usually got the problem wrong on the board when I normally would have gotten it right in my homework or test. I only did that when I absolutely had to (was called on).

Homework, on the other hand, was such an ingrained habit in me that I didn't even consider not doing it. As a parent, I would definitely want to know if my child was not doing and/or handing in assignments. And as a student, it is *very* helpful to get feedback - before you take the test.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,314,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post

What I'm hoping to move towards (if I can get the math department to agree with me) is standards based grading with a quiz on every standard. In order to retake a quiz, the student would have to "earn" the retake by completing a homework assignment. The problem is it is a ton of work on the teacher to have 6+ versions of a quiz on each standard, and the tracking is a pain...but I still think it's better for the students, and would provide a more accurate overall grade.
They tell us it's coming your way. We are using a standards based grading system up through grade 6 (and I think you and I are in the same system). Homework can NOT count towards the academic grade and we are not allowed to grade it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,323,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Sounds like we have one group of parents who care about their children and another who do not. You would think the internal motivation and drive would be instilled by family values, by watching your parents and thinking that's the way the world operates. How can the Norwegians and Japanese be so good at this, and we, so awful? Maybe we need to address the problem, as a society, where it begins, with the parents. Big public service thing about the behavior of bad parents - so big that it's talked about in churches, etc. 'A mind is a terrible thing to waste' and it starts wasting in the home.
Good post. Living here n Japan, though, I would take partial exception to a characterization of all Japanese kids as being "internally motivated." Often the motivation comes directly through the parents' (especiailly the mother's) need to succeed vicariously through her children and maintain face in the fierce sociocultural competition with other parents that makes up a good chunk of Japanese society.

There is even a popular term for this: "kyoiku mama" ("education mama"), which describes parents' grim commitment to the obsessive pursuit of student achievement, test scores, and admission to the best schools (including at the kindergarten level --- it is not unusual for three and four-year-olds being drilled by their mothers to identify animal shapes and sounds, to sit still, to smile cutely, etc. for admission interviewers...) And I think most of us are aware of the cram schools which many students attend AFTER their regular shcool days, where professional tutors stuff the kids with specific facts and techniques for achieving high test scores.

My point is that self-motivation and the pursuit of knowledge for its intrinsic value is rarely the case here. Instead, the support of education as a method of hammering a child into the right shape to find a snug hole and sinecure in the jigsaw puzzle of work and society which is is the ironclad rule of life of Japan.

Kyoiku mama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,966,786 times
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Yes, Japan is extreme, hence the suicides.
Yet I believe Asians, in general, do better in our schools than any other cultural group and I don't think they are that extreme here. Indians do well, and they don't have the pushy moms, I believe, as the Japanese or Chinese.

Money begets money. Success begets success. There are Cubans who came to the US penniless and there are a lot of wealthy Cubans here now, a generation or so later.

Disadvantaged people can succeed. I think somehow the parents do not show the kids that they value things of the mind. My mom did not finish high school and my father did not finish grammar school. I did not get approval or disapproval for my grades.

The things they did do is they read to me when I was very young. They taught me to read and write before I even started school. They always taught me to do the best I could, and they made sure that I knew they were in earnest. Both worked in jobs that were hard physically due to their lack of education.

I ended up putting myself through college nights and got my MBA.

I can only assume that disadvantaged people, many of them, are not encouraging their children in the right way. Maybe they need to be taught about how children in their own social group DO succeed - the attitude that parents of these kids had.

My friend has a PhD. She came from a disadvantaged family. THey DID value eduction to the extent that she was not allowed any friends from her neighborhood because they were thought to be a bad influence. She's a wonderful person and successful in life.

It CAN be done. It takes determinate, a dream, persistence.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:22 PM
 
17,353 posts, read 16,498,076 times
Reputation: 28954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Good post. Living here n Japan, though, I would take partial exception to a characterization of all Japanese kids as being "internally motivated." Often the motivation comes directly through the parents' (especiailly the mother's) need to succeed vicariously through her children and maintain face in the fierce sociocultural competition with other parents that makes up a good chunk of Japanese society.

There is even a popular term for this: "kyoiku mama" ("education mama"), which describes parents' grim commitment to the obsessive pursuit of student achievement, test scores, and admission to the best schools (including at the kindergarten level --- it is not unusual for three and four-year-olds being drilled by their mothers to identify animal shapes and sounds, to sit still, to smile cutely, etc. for admission interviewers...) And I think most of us are aware of the cram schools which many students attend AFTER their regular shcool days, where professional tutors stuff the kids with specific facts and techniques for achieving high test scores.

My point is that self-motivation and the pursuit of knowledge for its intrinsic value is rarely the case here. Instead, the support of education as a method of hammering a child into the right shape to find a snug hole and sinecure in the jigsaw puzzle of work and society which is is the ironclad rule of life of Japan.

Kyoiku mama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Homework - to reinforce what is learned in school - is one thing. Sending your kid to "school" after school is something else entirely. In my own view, kids should have the opportunity to achieve a solid basic education - in all subjects - by the time they graduate. Advanced learners and/or the kids who are willing to put in the effort to succeed academically should be given the opportunity to take more challenging courses which go beyond the basic offerings. Those courses should be challenging because - as a nation and regardless of color/religion, etc of our students- we want our kids (young adults) to have the skills to compete in the marketplace.

It's more about developing individual talents and goals than pushing all kids towards a singular blue ribbon prize.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,323,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Homework - to reinforce what is learned in school - is one thing. Sending your kid to "school" after school is something else entirely. In my own view, kids should have the opportunity to achieve a solid basic education - in all subjects - by the time they graduate. Advanced learners and/or the kids who are willing to put in the effort to succeed academically should be given the opportunity to take more challenging courses which go beyond the basic offerings. Those courses should be challenging because - as a nation and regardless of color/religion, etc of our students- we want our kids (young adults) to have the skills to compete in the marketplace.

It's more about developing individual talents and goals than pushing all kids towards a singular blue ribbon prize.
Your comments, if limited to the US, are right on. Keep in mind the cultural differences I outlined in Japanese society, though. To them (with some exceptions, of course) the only "blue ribbon" that counts is a secure job with a recognized company, obtained by successfully surviving a punishing series of tests with predetermined, objective answers. Individual talents do not figure prominently in this calculus.

I hasten to add that for the Japanese, this approach works quite well. For Americans, not so much. A key element in the difference is the value placed on the "individual talents and goals" in American education, to which you accurately refer, which springs from our collective grounding in classical, humanistic philosophy. Contrast the overarching value placed on group harmony and the notion of test-based rewards as THE determiner, which the Japanese inherited from the Chinese, and which reduces the individual's role to that of cog in a very large, smoothly-running wheel.
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